Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

What a lot of folks are missing


Mr. Scot

Recommended Posts

at this point, maybe. i just wonder where you draw the line?

here is one problem i have: is the goal of management now to try and just prevent mistakes? is it to work around an obvious weakness of the team rather than it's strengths? if what you have on the field is holding you back, wouldn't a better solution be to improve that area instead of trying to make it not quite so bad?

if jake can't seem to get his act together teams are going to feel free to stack the box and force jake to throw/make mistakes. they aren't afraid of him anymore. the panthers are more afraid that he is going to have performances like he did against the cardinals and eagles.

John Fox has been the coach of this team for how many years? Coaching is not going to be the easiest fix to the problems...the easiest fix is a QB who simply is willing to protect the ball better.....that is the first of many steps in the right direction. A John Fox team can not survive turning the ball over. That doesn't mean that QB is the answer....it will cut back on a huge chuck of the problems.....plenty of those turnovers are on Jake despite the pressure he has faced.

You can do a lot in your play calling to protect the quarterback and limit the risks you're asking him to take. Long balls to Moose need to go away, we need more short patterns to Smitty, and we need to stop whatever "tell" the other teams are getting when we pass (the one Moose referred to). Those three items are 100% coaching decisions. Against Dallas late we did really well throwing to DeAngelo Williams, why wasn't that done earlier?

The nice thing about this sort of solution is that it can be implemented immediately without shaking up team chemistry or getting all experimental. Just change what you're doing, and see if the problems are all due to your personnel or how you're using them.

A few years ago Jake went down and we turned to Weinke. He set a franchise record throwing the ball. We still lost. The next week, we introduced the wildcat. Same personnel, different offensive sets. There's precedent for this, even extreme precedent as shown in that example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Almost all teams have some areas in which they are weak. I imagine even the Saints and Colts have some areas where the coach feels they need to improve. But Jake's problems are glaring and have more of an impact on our games than the other problem areas. There is nothing that will take a team down more than a interception or fumble. And Jake has turned it over more than any other player in the NFL this year. We could compensate for some of the other problems, but turnovers by your Quarterback are nearly impossible to compensate for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can do a lot in your play calling to protect the quarterback and limit the risks you're asking him to take. Long balls to Moose need to go away, we need more short patterns to Smitty, and we need to stop whatever "tell" the other teams are getting when we pass (the one Moose referred to). Those three items are 100% coaching decisions. Against Dallas late we did really well throwing to DeAngelo Williams, why wasn't that done earlier?

The nice thing about this sort of solution is that it can be implemented immediately without shaking up team chemistry or getting all experimental. Just change what you're doing, and see if the problems are all due to your personnel or how you're using them.

A few years ago Jake went down and we turned to Weinke. He set a franchise record throwing the ball. We still lost. The next week, we introduced the wildcat. Same personnel, different offensive sets. There's precedent for this, even extreme precedent as shown in that example.

what i have bolded above is what i have a problem with. should you have to do this for a vet QB? this is what they do for rookie and first time starting QBs, is it not? jake was allowed to take risks in the past because more often than not it paid off. now it has come to a point where it isn't paying off. when you have to protect an aging QB it very well could be time to put him out to pasture. get someone who is on the upswing rather than the downswing of his career.

i agree with the changes that need to be made but i just see them being too prone to falling back on bad tendencies in the heat of battle or when they do make adjustments they make them too late.

all those players that jake targets on the 2 minute drill or on the hurry up offense, he needs to be targeting all game. if defenders know that jake is going to be spreading that ball around early and often, that will open up smith and the running game.

the modified WCO sound like a good idea. combine that with a no huddle or hurry up offense and i think you are going to be solid.

one problem i see is someone is thinking way too much about things. maybe davidson? the team works best when it is setting a fast pace but not in panic mode. if you can do the hurry up and force jake to get rid of the ball quickly instead of waiting all day for smith and/or moose to get open you will see the overall offense improving. i just don't have the faith anymore that this offense can do that with the current playcallers and jake trying too hard to make the big play. he just flat out can't do it anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1st of all, thanks to Mr Scot for providing a thread where there has actually been solid discussion instead of closed minded remarks made without explanation of those reasons... (not directed at any one group of thought)

More examples of said discussion would greatly be appreciated.. (the part where reasons and explanations are given instead of vague, closed minded remarks)

Second of all, this thread says all the things I've been trying to say, but unable to get the point across so well... which is also summed up greatly below.

Jeff Davidson's playcalling is a problem, not the problem. But if he paid more attention to Jake's passing issues they would be less of a problem, not the problem. And the sets he chooses have had a lot to do with the lack of a complementary receiving threat, which is a problem, not the problem.

Offensive line weaknesses are a problem, not the problem, but if they were fixed then Jake's passing issues might be less of a problem, not the problem, and more time in the pocket may allow time to develop a complementary receiving threat, the lack thereof is a problem, not the problem. Better protection would certainly help with Ball security issues, which at least at the QB spot have been a problem, not the problem. It's hard to hold the ball when you're hit from behind while trying to pass.

Ball security issues - including those from previously reliable guys like DeAngelo Williams - are a problem, not the problem. But three fumbles lost by your starting backs are not insurmountable. This wouldn't be as high on my priority list as others.

Defensive struggles against the run are a problem, not the problem. Hollis Thomas went a long way towards addressing these. Maybe this can get less focus now, bravo to the Front Office and Coaching staff.

Danny Crossman's special teams coaching is a problem, not the problem. But a longer field certainly helps the defense, and a short one makes it easier for the opponents to score.

Aside from the offensive line issues, it looks like a lot can be addressed by getting Crossman and Davidson to adjust their approach. If I was prioritizing, that's where I would start.

But it's easier to put Moore in and throw up your hands in despair if he doesn't work out than it would be to get a game plan to maximize your team's strengths...

The sum of all parts is what we get and to think one aspect is solely responsible is rather naive..

rep if I could... said it much better than I can...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Completely agree with bleys and to everyone who has posted in this thread thank you. I don't think I have read a thread that I enjoyed reading both sides of an issue in a long, long time.

The one thing I would add to this conversation is that while Delhomme has never been a great QB, he has always been a good QB up until the playoff game last season. Since then he has been bad, no questions asked. But how quickly can you expect a coaching staff react to that? I will take time and as this season has progressed I think the way they are using Jake has gotten better while Jake really hasn't improved at all.

I do agree that it is frustrating that a vetern QB is having to be handled like a rookie but that is the situation we are in. Blame people if you want to but I would rather do that at the end of the season. Right now, I just want to see the coaching staff working to fix this and all other problems on the team. And for the most part I do see this happening. I think Fox and Hurney have done amazing at their jobs during the season. It was their lackluster performance during this offseason that has created the most problems.

Also, I agree about the talent of teams in the NFL. This isn't college football. Every team in the NFL is equally talented, including the coaching staff. The difference in winning and losing is so fine that that itself is what makes winning so much more impressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if every team were equally talented and equally coached then we wouldn't have teams who are undefeated right now and we wouldn't have teams who are without a win.

all things are not equal just because you are on the pro level.

players get cut and players get promotions because some are better than others. coaches get fired and get promotions because of how well they can get their job done.

if a team isn't performing well, it's because they don't have the same level of talent on the player and coaching level as the teams that are winning.

teams that win do things differently than the teams that don't. they have better players and/or better leadership. the teams that don't win do things worse than the other teams. there is something wrong with either the level of talent on the team or the management of it.

those teams who can't compete with those at the top and come out with a win need to do things to change that. if they can't during the season then they have to between seasons. teams in the league are always improving. those who think they are just fine are sure to find out the following year that they haven't. if you aren't constantly changing/improving/evolving you are going to be unable to consistently win.

not all teams have that insatiable desire to improve and win. some teams have inferiority complexes and other teams have apathetic personalities who just want to get by and are happy just being a little above average. then there are the teams who win...those who say that no team is good enough, no group of personnel is good enough, no coaching is good enough, no record is good enough, no lead is big enough. it's those teams who aren't satisfied ever who will keep coming back year after year with an attitude of kill or be killed. they are the teams who will look at a weak spot and not try and gloss over it or put cushions around it but will make solid change. they will improve that weak spot one way or another so that it isn't a weak spot. they will change instead of coming up with excuses for /justifying the weakness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/119fded9-02a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/9c2d5c5e-05a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/f60be231-07a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/156671f6-09a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/a7ecc9c1-0ba3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/fbb627a5-0da3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/344a8502-0ea3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/4cdf8e12-12a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/846c1584-15a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/4cff2c64-16a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985   https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/3c42e393-0aa3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/cdc45f5a-0ba3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/2c89c9f7-0ba3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/1e517aae-0ca3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/073ce867-0da3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/b8668d19-0ea3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/39cb9af3-0ea3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/f167a6a7-0fa3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/c2553f43-10a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/604eb505-11a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/9266305c-12a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/86589e76-13a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/f6b05318-16a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985 https://mysupport.commscope.com/forums/general-discussion/e68c3ec1-16a3-ef11-95f6-0022484ec985   https://www.facebook.com/VitalGrowXLGummies/ https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/ec9126af-40a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/366e3b84-41a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/37d24944-44a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/9aa2f221-45a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/6a7f81a1-46a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/9fce4a68-47a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/0a328348-48a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/ef9d5b09-49a2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/7fcf1e82-4ba2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/30968650-4ca2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/2b050bf2-4ca2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd https://jointtrenchportal.centerpointenergy.com/forums/general-discussion/635b6272-4da2-ef11-95f6-0022480ba4bd  
    • BPA! If that happens to be D-line, sobeit. FA has to figure in somewhere as well.
    • Chinn’s current stats are in line with his stats with Panthers before Evero arrived, and yes he regressed from his rookie year where he looked like a game changer. He is not putting up drastically different numbers now he just looks better on a winning team. We were all disappointed with his development even prior to Evero but he was definitely a misfit in the 3-4 defense.    
×
×
  • Create New...