David Newton trying to start some controversy

[coralreefer_1]

16 hours ago, Everfrost said:

Well if it is something those people want to do then how does it affect you? Jealousy? That people don't care for you in this matter?

The fug you talking about man. I dont care what ppl do. At what point did you jump over a cliff and to the conclusion otherwise? I just pointed out that yes...service members often do get free dinners and drinks (which was the butt of a joke) ...but really isn't a joke, because it actually happens. 

Calm yourself. Noone is jealous of a 5 dollar IPA at the airport~~

[Silent Majority]

nvm

[Skack25]

On 10/31/2018 at 9:32 PM, Professor Chaos said:

If you follow any of these assholes, it becomes very clear that they're not going to let the kneeling thing go until they get some clicks out of it. Every single week they all post something like "Yes, Eric Reid continues to kneel in protest of social inequality". Well no poo he is, no one expects him to stop at this point. They're just trying to stroke up drama for no reason.

Exactly.  Rodrigue does this EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.  It's not even news anymore.

[MHS831]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:20 AM, FakePlasticTrees said:

The First Amendment guards against government interference with a person's freedom of speech. The Panthers are not the government. They are an employer. It is settled law that employers can restrict speech, political and otherwise, in the workplace.

Clearly, Reid DOES NOT understand his rights. It appears as though the Panthers are going to allow him to kneel. That is the Panther's right. However, unless their is contractual agreement to the contrary, the Panthers could likewise choose to restrict his ability to kneel if they so chose.

  The central problem has not been successfully addressed--the central problem is not the owners, the president and his politically-motivated involvement, or the protesting players.  Forcing any faction to change their reactions is unconstitutional.  So there is no resolution from this perspective because the central problem has not been addressed properly.

The central problem:  They play the national anthem in front of cameras and thousands of people and expect the players to stand in respect without considering the position it puts them in.  Should Reid and Kaepernick be expected to stand for something that they feel targets and belittles those like them?  Make them stand?  When they kneel, they become targets of the President and the cameras--it is conflict and America loves conflict.  Fans are offended because they feel it is disrespectful, and they pay the bills. 

The solution:  Who said playing the national anthem was a requirement?  Heck, in baseball, we have players from other countries who are not citizens.  We have Canadian teams.  These are athletes, not soldiers. This is entertainment, not politics.  We do not pray in schools--that makes some angry--but it is because they want their values forced on others.  I assure you that they would have a different perspective if the schools prayed and practiced customs from another religion or denomination.  However, they scream,  "They took God out of the schools!"  No they did not--they took their God out of the schools.   Schools are not charged with nurturing spirituality, so why do we insist on prayer there?  Taking religion out of schools has created animosities, but making it part of the hidden or intended curricula would be much more problematic.  Schools are respecting the freedom of religion by not requiring prayers and Bible recitations.  The NFL is not in the  patriotism business, and you now see why.   

We do not mind it so much when our values are forced on others, but when the tables are turned, there is moral outrage.  That is where Reid and Kaepernick are.  They are being paraded in front of cameras and stands full of people and expected to respect the flag and anthem despite strong resentment for showing allegiance to something that discriminates against those like them.  Heck, there are people on this board that think African Americans should still salute the confederate flag because it represents "Southern heritage."  To blacks, "Southern heritage" means traitors, lynchers, and slavery--even if your family was too poor to own slaves.  Anyone who can't see that refuses to consider alternative perspectives in an argument--that is called narrow mindedness (I call it "blind tradition".

  When they play the anthem at games, players are put on the spot.  Did they commit a crime on one knee? No.  Did they do something that disrupted the flow of the process?  No.   It is called civil disobedience, and it is INDEED protected by the bill of rights.  So lets not assume the American flag and its theme song are requirements.  If so, do not make people show respect. 

To see the central problem, you have to look at this from the player's perspective--their ethnicity, current and historical events that shape their perspectives, and what they are expected to do on a national stage.  Put your bias away and consider their rights. 

Irony:  most of the people who should read this won't because they get mad at simple logic that exposes their biases.  And it is long. 

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

30 minutes ago, coralreefer_1 said:

The fug you talking about man. I dont care what ppl do. At what point did you jump over a cliff and to the conclusion otherwise? I just pointed out that yes...service members often do get free dinners and drinks (which was the butt of a joke) ...but really isn't a joke, because it actually happens. 

Calm yourself. Noone is jealous of a 5 dollar IPA at the airport~~

It is a welcome home from the many awaiting their flights at the airport or meeting the loved ones returning home from being away from their families.

[TheRed]

45 minutes ago, Cat said:

I support kneeling, I support social justice. However Eric Reid frequently comes across as a dick. There was no reason his response to that question had to be confrontational. 

Why are we trying to tone police Eric Reid when owners like Bob McNair can openly refer to African-American football players as inmates?

[coralreefer_1]

16 hours ago, rbsponsel52 said:

It is a welcome home from the many awaiting their flights at the airport or meeting the loved ones returning home from being away from their families.

agreed. I never said anything to the contrary. Bone up on reading comprehension~

[FakePlasticTrees]

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

  The central problem has not been successfully addressed--the central problem is not the owners, the president and his politically-motivated involvement, or the protesting players.  Forcing any faction to change their reactions is unconstitutional.  So there is no resolution from this perspective because the central problem has not been addressed properly.

The central problem:  They play the national anthem in front of cameras and thousands of people and expect the players to stand in respect without considering the position it puts them in.  Should Reid and Kaepernick be expected to stand for something that they feel targets and belittles those like them?  Make them stand?  When the kneel, they become targets of the President and the cameras--it is conflict and America loves conflict.  Fans are offended because they feel it is disrespectful, and they pay the bills.  The solution:  Who said playing the national anthem was a requirement?  Heck, in baseball, we have players from other countries who are not citizens.  We have Canadian teams.  These are athletes, not soldiers. This is entertainment, not politics.  We do not pray in schools--that makes some angry--but it is because they want their values forced on others.  I assure you that they would have a different perspective if the schools prayed and practiced customs from another religion or denomination.  However, they scream,  "They took God out of the schools!"  No they did not--they took your God out of the schools.   Schools are not charged with nurturing spirituality, so why do we insist on prayer there?  Taking religion out of schools has created animosities, but making it part of the hidden or intended curricula would be much more problematic. 

We do not mind it so much when our values are forced on others, but when the tables are turned, there is moral outrage.  That is where Reid and Kaepernick are.  They are being paraded in front of cameras and stands full of people and expected to respect the flag and anthem despite strong resentment for showing allegiance to something that discriminates against those like them.  Heck, there are people on this board that think African Americans should still salute the confederate flag because it represents "white heritage."  It does not mean "white heritage" to blacks--trust me.  When they play the anthem at games, players are put on the spot.  Did they commit a crime on one knee? No.  Did they do something that disrupted the flow of the process?  No.   It is called civil disobedience, and it is INDEED protected by the bill of rights.  So lets not assume the American flag and its theme song are requirements.  If so, do not make people show respect. 

To see the central problem, you have to look at this from the player's perspective--their ethnicity, current and historical events that shape their perspectives, and what they are expected to do on a national stage.  Put your bias away and consider their rights. 

I really wish to avoid a debate on the on the wisdom of this form of protest or my personal beliefs. I will keep my opinions on that matter to myself. My point was that bill of rights (that includes the First Amendment) applies to state (government) action. If the owner of a football team or any other business owner wishes to restrict this sort of political speech they are within their rights to do so. Since there is no state action there is no constitutional prohibition on the restriction of such speech.

In other words, that which the government may not do private citizens can do without constitutional ramifications.

Example 1:

John attends a public school (state action). A teacher at the school asks John and his classmates to hold hands and pray together. Furthermore, he makes participation voluntary. The courts have consistently held this to be a violation of the First Amendment that includes the Establishment Clause.

Example 2:

John transfers to a private school. On his first day of class his teacher does the same thing that the public school teacher did at public school. Because it is a private school (no state action) there will be no Establishment Clause violation.

Example 3

The legislature passes a law banning kneeling during the national anthem at public events. This is clearly an unconstitutional statute that violates the First Amendment protections against such restrictions on political speech (especially prior restraint).

Example 4

The owner of Apex, Inc., a private company, has a rule that employees cannot wear political buttons or carry candidate placards into the workplace. Since this is a private company, this policy of restriction of speech is constitutional. This also assumes that there is no enforceable contract that prohibits such restrictions. If there was such a contract, the matter is a contractual one rather than constitutional.

Bottom Line:

The Panthers (or the NFL) could restrict the ability of a player to protest during activities related to the job. The team could adopt a policy whereby a player who does not wish to stand during the national anthem stays in the locker room or the tunnel. Furthermore, a team can ask a potential employee if they plan to kneel during the national anthem (players union notwithstanding) during the interview process. Since there is no state action and/or contractual prohibition, the action is allowed.

 

[Dex]

52 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Why are we trying to tone police Eric Reid when owners like Bob McNair can openly refer to African-American football players as inmates?

I think she just meant he seems to be going out of his way to be a dick. No one is asking him to tone it down. It just may not be helping his cause is all. But I'm the wrong shade and can't relate to his anger so I'm gonna let the man do him. Also I'm pretty sure we all realize there is a double standard. No need to drop truth bombs when it's already clear as day.

[Varking]

1 hour ago, Tomás The Boss said:

If you haven't died protecting your country, you simply do not understand what they mean. They are not your flag and not your anthem.

These are the people Eric Reid is spitting on when he KNEELS like a bitch rather than STANDS like a man.

Some of those people encourage him to kneel. When somebody does anything in life, you have the choice if how you react. You can find offense to anything. You can also brush things off and go who cares what an athlete does since they aren't actually good role models. Do you stand with your hand over your heart whenever the anthem is played on television? Probably not. Are we mad at the camera men and women who walk around during the anthem so you can get your good shots of the players on the sideline? Probably not. On my fathers side of the family every single one of us has served or is still serving. We fought and continue to fight for his rights. And it is his right 100% to peacefully protest. This isn't burning a city, this isn't blocking a highway in baltimore and flipping cars, he is taking a knee for less than five minutes and life goes on. I'm happy he is on our team because our other options at Safety are garbage. 

[ThatsJustAJ]

3 hours ago, coralreefer_1 said:

If you have ever been on a layover with a service member in gear...you know this is damn true. Mofos will make a spectacle of themselves to buy that service member a drink/lunch/dinner...even offer their blankets and pillows if,  due to weather or whatever,  its an overnight sleep in the airport. It has almost become a competition to see which non-military bloke will go the farthest via money to show respect to the military service people in airports!

Cool. Couple things. Can’t relate.

Im black, nobody is rushing to start up a military conversation with me.

Marines are supposed to remain inconspicuous in airports as to not become a target. Many Marines are awful at this because they choose to dress like a caricature of Marines. At least they got that drink though... 

 

[PanthersBigD]

1 hour ago, Tomás The Boss said:

Let me take a second to tell you about some of the real lives affected by Eric's actions. Putting your knee on the ground is NOT and NEVER WILL BE a victimless crime. (If I can understand that at age 18, why can't a full "grown" man like Eric Reid?)

 

This is my cousin Steve, who took his own life less than  a decade after his life was forever changed during fighting in Mahmudiya, Iraq:

 

This is my uncle Charles, who was wounded (lost eight fingers, still can only use his thumbs and one index finger) defending our country in the Battle of Abu Ghraib:

 

And this is my grandfather, Lt. Calley, who died bravely fighting the Nazis in Vietnam:

 

Though many people think the flag and anthem of the United States are the flag and anthem of all American people, they are actually intended as the flag and anthem of the United States Military and our brave first responders. If you haven't died protecting your country, you simply do not understand what they mean. They are not your flag and not your anthem.

These are the people Eric Reid is spitting on when he KNEELS like a bitch rather than STANDS like a man.

Epic post. The Pie from RB sealed it.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

2 hours ago, coralreefer_1 said:

agreed. I never said anything to the contrary. Bone up on reading comprehension~

Really! No reason to insult me because all I was doing is adding on to what you said is all.

[Cat]

3 hours ago, TheRed said:

Why are we trying to tone police Eric Reid when owners like Bob McNair can openly refer to African-American football players as inmates?

I'm not trying to be the tone police. I think he's an ass. I think Steve Smith is an ass. If Bob McNair said that I think he is a racist piece of poo.