The Heiarchy: The PANTHERS pride of weapons

[DaveThePanther2008]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:51 AM, Icege said:

This narrative is misleading.

2014: KB is drafted in the first, Trai in the 3rd. KB fizzled out but no denying before the injury he was trending up. Trai is now a 3-time Pro Bowler. He also brought in a 3rd player for the offense: Andrew Norwell. Philly Brown, though not as strong of a pick up as the previously mentioned, was also found as a UDFA. Cotchery, old as he was, I think was a good veteran signing. Dickson too, though not old.

2015: Funchess drafted, Daryl William's drafted, Byrd undrafted. Ginn and Oher brought in from free agency. Oh yea, CAP drafted as well I guess.

2016: Legit didn't get poo for offense. Awful offseason. I will never argue this. Defense was in luxury/need mode all at once. Doo doo. Idk if as bad as the 2010 offseason where we were dumping vets and depth in prep for the lockout with Fox in a lame duck contract year. Best part about that offseason was the pre-domestic violence Greg Hardy in the 5th. They're up there together though pretty high. Wait, 2016 was when we signed Matt Kalil. Ew... 

2017: CMC, Samuel, Moton, Armah. Van Roten too. 

Playoffs made in 3 of those 4 seasons, including 2 divisional titles and a Super Bowl appearance.

He was getting weapons and protection except for the season after the SB/MVP season where the offense was high scoring despite losing the #1 WR to start the season to injury. Was expected to make it work with the same crew but replace Cotchery with KB. Oher wasn't expected to effectively be forced into retirement from concussions nor KB be gutter trash. Plus Cam being headhunted all season.

When we first hired DG I was all on board with almost everything he said and was doing. I don't argue with his free agent signing but his drafts for the most part were horrible especially at the top.  KB, Butler and even Shaq haven't really panned out to be 1st round picks.  KB is 3/4 out of the league, Butler has been questionable at best and Shaq doesn't see enough of the playing field for a 1st round pick. (more this year than ever before)

His UDFA helped him a lot and had many that made the squad.  Free Agents weren't so bad but So many of his draft picks were just terrible.  

Hurney wasn't much better but at least nailed round 1 every time.  About the worst he did was Otah and his biggest issue was he was 20 something going on 12.

[Icege]

On 10/30/2018 at 7:15 PM, CPantherKing said:

This is not a DG topic. SMH. If you want me to speak to DG, post this in a DG topic and I will speak  to it.

This is about Cam and the weapons he has been so desperately needing.

Unbelievable! The DG craze was so over-hyped that it still carries over into topics that have no mention of him. It's cult like.

You got a list of weapons AND protection that Cam got from 2014 - 2017, which you falsely stated did not happen.

But thanks for letting us know that it is simply due to your dislike of Gettleman. Especially since I never once said his name yet in your first post you attributed help coming from Hurney and then voiced your displeasure regarding Gettleman when you got hit with facts.

[Icege]

8 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

When we first hired DG I was all on board with almost everything he said and was doing. I don't argue with his free agent signing but his drafts for the most part were horrible especially at the top.  KB, Butler and even Shaq haven't really panned out to be 1st round picks.  KB is 3/4 out of the league, Butler has been questionable at best and Shaq doesn't see enough of the playing field for a 1st round pick. (more this year than ever before)

His UDFA helped him a lot and had many that made the squad.  Free Agents weren't so bad but So many of his draft picks were just terrible.  

Hurney wasn't much better but at least nailed round 1 every time.  About the worst he did was Otah and his biggest issue was he was 20 something going on 12.

I was the same, but there are things such as the JNo cut and others that I can comfortably say that he was wrong.

Shaq is looking like we will have life after TD. Folks wanted to crucify him for all of the time he spent lining up last season in different packages, putting him in positions like having to cover the slot WR instead of subbing in Munnerlyn. He has done very well against the run and isnt nearly the liability that folks try to claim in pass coverage. I'd say an heir to TD is a hit. KB was great until his knee exploded and his mental health declined. Butler was insurance for Short who ended up resigning at the end of the season. I have time and time again posted the data showing that Butler is not a bust but the victim of his environment (spelling a top UT in the league). Folks are tied with their own expectations of what makes a 1st round pick successful.

I very much disagree with the assessment that his drafts were bad. I broke this down in comparison to the Steelers who are often used as the model of success when it comes to the draft. We had a better hit rate than they did and more of our draft picks remain in the league. Even more impressive when we take into consideration that we consistently had the least picks during the draft. 2016 was ass, but otherwise they've been much better than Hurney's. With that said, this recent draft has been one of Hurney's best imo.

Very interested to see how the OL is addressed. Cam has PLENTY of weapons now and is a center away from a complete starting line. My biggest concern there is how the OL depth specifically is addressed. As important as it is to give the QB playmakers to distribute the ball to, it is just as important if not more so to make sure that he gets the protection and push he needs from the guys upfront. 

[Toomers]

5 minutes ago, Icege said:

I was the same, but there are things such as the JNo cut and others that I can comfortably say that he was wrong.

Shaq is looking like we will have life after TD. Folks wanted to crucify him for all of the time he spent lining up last season in different packages, putting him in positions like having to cover the slot WR instead of subbing in Munnerlyn. He has done very well against the run and isnt nearly the liability that folks try to claim in pass coverage. I'd say an heir to TD is a hit. KB was great until his knee exploded and his mental health declined. Butler was insurance for Short who ended up resigning at the end of the season. I have time and time again posted the data showing that Butler is not a bust but the victim of his environment (spelling a top UT in the league). Folks are tied with their own expectations of what makes a 1st round pick successful.

I very much disagree with the assessment that his drafts were bad. I broke this down in comparison to the Steelers who are often used as the model of success when it comes to the draft. We had a better hit rate than they did and more of our draft picks remain in the league. Even more impressive when we take into consideration that we consistently had the least picks during the draft. 2016 was ass, but otherwise they've been much better than Hurney's. With that said, this recent draft has been one of Hurney's best imo.

Very interested to see how the OL is addressed. Cam has PLENTY of weapons now and is a center away from a complete starting line. My biggest concern there is how the OL depth specifically is addressed. As important as it is to give the QB playmakers to distribute the ball to, it is just as important if not more so to make sure that he gets the protection and push he needs from the guys upfront. 

Well said. As a lifelong Steeler fan, Ive made this comparison many times, also. Usually ends the discussion. If people apply the same “standards” to all teams, in an actual comparison, they find out quickly how we stack up very well. 

    For such a horrible drafter, all but 4 picks are still in the league. One never played due to injury. 3 All-Pro OL(with another coming and no 1st round picks used), All Pro DT, CMC. How many teams do you think do much better than that? 

  And KB gave us 1,000 yd WR production for 2.5 years, missed one to injury, and still brought us a 3rd back. Even Ealy got us a 4-5th in value. What did we get for Brown, Edwards, Amini, LaFell, Pickles etc...An insurance policy from their new career?