FYI: the panthers have no cap space

[AppHeel]

I feel like evry time I read that team X has no cap space, team X is still able to sign players some how. Until further notice, I've decided that the Cap is a conspiracy set by the NFL to fool fans and players about money availability to pay and sign players.

 

[panthers55]

7 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

But there is a large savings too, the question is, is he worth his Cap hit? If the answer is no $15m dead cap over two years or not we need to just cut our losses and move on.

i think we will know when he comes back from injury. If he comes back and is terrible then he just needs to go and we need to cut our losses. If he is good then keep him and just grin our teeth and bare it.

imo to date he has not been worth the contract we are paying him and if I were to make a choice today I’d cut him post June 1st next year.

You must go to the same savings class my wife went to. She always tells me how much she saves when she only spends this much. I am of the school that says saving is where you don't spend money at all. So anyway you look at it he isn't playing and costs us millions now. If we cut him it is 15 million more and we still have to find and pay his replacement.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

If a guy on IR has had an injury past it matters. If like Williams he doesn't then it doesn't which it why I didn't mention it. Kalil.on the other hand did so I mentioned it. Simple really.

Williams missed a ton during his first two seasons. Kalil missed almost all of 2016? What’s the difference? 

  

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Williams missed a ton during his first two seasons. Kalil missed almost all of 2016? What’s the difference? 

  

So you think they both should be included which just furthers my point. Ok you win....

[TheCasillas]

36 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

 

The main reason that  2011 to 2014 was trouble was a flat cap which didnt excalate like now. If we were still flat our cap mess would be twice what it was then. And kalil"s dead cap if we cut him next year is still 15 million. Over one year or two that is a ton. Plus we have to replace him as well. 

If he is a post 6/1 cut it will NOT cost us 15 mil. 15 mil over 3 years - yes. But we get 8 mil in year 1 - 11.9 in year 2&3.

by your logic it would make no sense to cut him bc it would cost less to roster him.

 

look at the screenshot i provided earlier in the thread man.

[Doc Holiday]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You must go to the same savings class my wife went to. She always tells me how much she saves when she only spends this much. I am of the school that says saving is where you don't spend money at all. So anyway you look at it he isn't playing and costs us millions now. If we cut him it is 15 million more and we still have to find and pay his replacement.

It comes down to if he is the solution to our problems at LT or not.

Let me put it this way, you have a ship with a history of being leaky(knee injuries) and the ship starts to sink(IR for knee injury).  if you have a sinking ship, you don’t place more cargo on it(time and money), hoping it eventually makes port(becomes your long term starter). You let the ship sink (cut your losses and take the cap hit) and move your cargo onto another ship that can make it(cap savings from cutting him).

Yes you’re going to take a cap hit, but you’re also gonna save a lot of of Cap room at the same time.

Adding more cargo(time and money) won’t help that ship. It’s either gonna make port or not.

Now with that said, we have the rest of this season to figure this out. But right now I’d vote to just move on.

 

[Doc Holiday]

2 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

If he is a post 6/1 cut it will NOT cost us 15 mil. 15 mil over 3 years - yes. But we get 8 mil in year 1 - 11.9 in year 2&3.

by your logic it would make no sense to cut him bc it would cost less to roster him.

 

look at the screenshot i provided earlier in the thread man.

Dude, I’ve just left him alone, he believes what he wants to.

I pointed out the same thing earlier and he said I was wrong, when the hard facts clearly point out what you’re saying.

you know you’re right, I know you’re right. You’re talking to a brick wall that only hears what he wants.

/end

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, Doc Holiday said:

Dude, I’ve just left him alone, he believes what he wants to.

I pointed out the same thing earlier and he said I was wrong, when the hard facts clearly point out what you’re saying.

you know you’re right, I know you’re right. You’re talking to a brick wall that only hears what he wants.

/end

You right fam 

[panthers55]

8 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

It comes down to if he is the solution to our problems at LT or not.

Let me put it this way, you have a ship with a history of being leaky(knee injuries) and the ship starts to sink(IR for knee injury).  if you have a sinking ship, you don’t place more cargo on it(time and money), hoping it eventually makes port(becomes your long term starter). You let the ship sink (cut your losses and take the cap hit) and move your cargo onto another ship that can make it(cap savings from cutting him).

Yes you’re going to take a cap hit, but you’re also gonna save a lot of of Cap room at the same time.

Adding more cargo(time and money) won’t help that ship. It’s either gonna make port or not.

Now with that said, we have the rest of this season to figure this out. But right now I’d vote to just move on.

 

Again you don't save cap money if we have 6 million in 2019 dead cap and then have to replace him. The 6 million is gone as is the remainder or 9 million in 2020. You aren't saving cap space unless the dead cap money and the money spent for his replacement is less than what you would have paid Kalil alone. You still have to spend another 10 million or more for his replacement unless you get lucky in the draft.

[panthers55]

26 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

If he is a post 6/1 cut it will NOT cost us 15 mil. 15 mil over 3 years - yes. But we get 8 mil in year 1 - 11.9 in year 2&3.

by your logic it would make no sense to cut him bc it would cost less to roster him.

 

look at the screenshot i provided earlier in the thread man.

You are the one who doesn't get it. When you cut someone and have dead cap space you are paying for nothing. The supposed savings go into the cost of replacing him since you still need a left tackle. So if we have 6 million in dead cap and then sign another left tackle for the going rate or 15 million you total for the position in 21 million. Where is the savings? Then add the second year salary of the new player to the 9.6 million dead cap to kalil and again where are there savings???  Yeah I know about cap hits and first year being lower but I am averaging it out for the purposes of discussion. Don't get me wrong unless something changes I am fine cuttiong Kalil, I just know doing so won't save anything, it will simply stem the bleeding.

[Toomers]

26 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So you think they both should be included which just furthers my point. Ok you win....

Win what? WTF are you even talking about?

[Ricky Spanish]

Hold the phone here. 

People are claiming that Gettleman left us in a "cap mess" because we will have 40 million free next year (9 million as some say, Not really sure, but either way, still a net positive) as opposed to being 12-20 OVER the cap when Hurney first left?

Keep in mind Hurney made that mess WITHOUT having to pay a franchise QB and DT.

So Gettleman fixed the 12 million hole we were in, managed to extend 2 of our best players to long term deals in positions with some of the highest contracts in the league, and next offseason we will STILL have cap room to work with?

...

I mean don't get me wrong, the Matt Kalil contract was bad, I won't argue it, but he put in a kill clause that Hurney then removed... 

But Shepard, Munnerlyn, and all the other guys that Gettleman signed to longer term deals all were, or could be cut with minimal to no long term damage to our future Cap situation.

Like, I'm failing to see how Gettleman was the problem with money here. There's some revisionist history going around. One bad contract (and Kalil's contract is bad) didn't put us in the mess we are in. Extending these old as hell guys has. 

[TheCasillas]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You are the one who doesn't get it. When you cut someone and have dead cap space you are paying for nothing. The supposed savings go into the cost of replacing him since you still need a left tackle. So if we have 6 million in dead cap and then sign another left tackle for the going rate or 15 million you total for the position in 21 million. Where is the savings

Smh. You are microanalyzing the cap based off of transactions.

its 4.9 million of dead cap over the entire cap. Not for a single position. You are thinking from a very minimalistic perspective. That’s why we can’t agree with you. 

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

Hold the phone here. 

People are claiming that Gettleman left us in a "cap mess" because we will have 40 million free next year (9 million as some say, Not really sure, but either way, still a net positive) as opposed to being 12-20 OVER the cap when Hurney first left?

Keep in mind Hurney made that mess WITHOUT having to pay a franchise QB and DT.

So Gettleman fixed the 12 million hole we were in, managed to extend 2 of our best players to long term deals in positions with some of the highest contracts in the league, and next offseason we will STILL have cap room to work with?

...

I mean don't get me wrong, the Matt Kalil contract was bad, I won't argue it, but he put in a kill clause that Hurney then removed... 

But Shepard, Munnerlyn, and all the other guys that Gettleman signed to longer term deals all were, or could be cut with minimal to no long term damage to our future Cap situation.

Like, I'm failing to see how Gettleman was the problem with money here. There's some revisionist history going around. One bad contract (and Kalil's contract is bad) didn't put us in the mess we are in. Extending these old as hell guys has. 

   That was so good up except for the “kill clause” in Kalil’s contract. There never was one. That was all Gman.