FYI: the panthers have no cap space

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, Doc Holiday said:

Yes. And if you want to history search my posts you will find that I am one of they first if not the first person on the huddle to point that a little over a month ago when we were talking about when could we cut Kalil.

 

I know, I was providing this screenshot to support you.

[Toomers]

Just now, panthers55 said:

Exactly. A big hit next year and in 2020 for a player you still have to replace.

 Yep. Just like paying CJ 20M in cap space in 2015 just so you can cut him for 4M more in 2016. No one has been more critical of the Kalil’s signing than me. Both GMs made huge mistakes. But Kalil isn’t the first big contract we ever had to eat. We have been chewing on them for 6 years now. 

[Doc Holiday]

3 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

I know, I was providing this screenshot to support you.

Sorry, I got mixed up with who is replying, on my phone. Thanks fam! Lol

[TheCasillas]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Exactly. A big hit next year and in 2020 for a player you still have to replace.

I am confused. It's a dead cap hit of 4.9mil each year for the next 3 years, if cut after 6/1. However, we would be saving more than we are spending keeping him.....

[TheCasillas]

12 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So you think the contracts to Kalil and Shepard werent bad? Hurney cut Shepard because he was a total waste. He makes Smith look like a great signing. And yeah if you have a player like Kalil who was injured before and you give him a huge contract and he can't stay healthy DG gets the blame. All Hurney did was clean up some of Gettleman's mess.

That's not a cap mess..... Smith was a trade btw and a great trade. The dead money that MH agreed to for Shepard is 1.4mil.... again not a cap mess.

DG's signing of MK was a bad assessment of talent, but  it is not  a cap mess, since we can get out of it next year and not lose a poo load of money.

Again, what you and I perceive as a cap mess is different. See panthers 2011-2015 for a real cap mess.

[thefuzz]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's fair, but it's kind of hard to say that the Saints have done a great job of building around him. They have one Super Bowl yes, but outside that just a couple of decent seasons and a run of some bad seasons over the past several years to show for it.

The Patriots have garnered much more success by spreading their cap around rather than leaving certain areas of the team so weak that you needed a phenomenal effort elsewhere to cover for them. Sometimes the Saints got that phenomenal effort, but they frequently didn't. And of course the Patriots always knew that even if a certain area of their team was week, they had superior coaching to compensate.

Heck, some teams take it even farther. The Lions old strategy was to pay two or three superstar players (Barry Sanders, Herman Moore,  Henry Thomas) and then skimp on the rest of the team. I can't really say I've ever seen that strategy work. The Saints aren't quite that bad, but they took a similar approach for a while after 2009 and didn't look that great.

If not for having such a phenomenal draft a little while back, they might still be struggling.

Goes to show just how hard it is to win one...especially with the Pats getting so many during their absurd run since 01.

Had the Saints played it correctly, they would likely have more Lombardi's on the shelf...but they kept chasing rings.  Should have settled into a good drafting team, continued to build the defense, and let Drew and Sean work their magic on the offense.

The Saints with Brees is very similar to the Colts with Manning...IMO.  Although Manning played in a much worse division.

[Toomers]

15 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Deleted my comment for being an ass

Ok . I’ll do it. Here’s the thread. 

 

On 10/11/2018 at 12:24 PM, Doc Holiday said:

Gone June 1st, we cut him pre June first it’s a $8m dead cap hit, post June 1st it’s $4m

  Even your information there is wrong? And thanks for pointing out that thread. I did a perfect breakdown of what he costs us. Saves me typing. 

[Doc Holiday]

10 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Ok . I’ll do it. Here’s the thread. 

 

  Even your information there is wrong? And thanks for pointing out that thread. I did a perfect breakdown of what he costs us. Saves me typing. 

Lol. No wrong bro, you just need to accept defeat. His post June 1st cut is what it is.

My point of this thread was we don’t have cap space. Apparently from differing points of view our cap is either $2m, $1.7m, $239k or even negative if we bring Kalil back from IR. Point is we don’t have the cap space to trade for a big name or someone who could start. And none of that changes with any of that info. Whether the cap is $239k or $2m.

now for some reason we are arguing the finer points of Kalils contract. Which has already gone over. 

Gtfo it bro.

 

 

[Raleigh PF]

4 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Lol. No wrong bro, you just need to accept defeat. His post June 1st cut is what it is.

My point of this thread was we don’t have cap space. Apparently from differing points of view our cap is either $2m, $1.7m, $239k or even negative if we bring Kalil back from IR. Point is we don’t have the cap space to trade for a big name or someone who could start. And none of that changes with any of that info. Whether the cap is $239k or $2m.

now for some reason we are arguing the finer points of Kalils contract. Which has already gone over. 

Gtfo it bro.

 

NFL teams are permitted to place any number of players on Injured Reserve. Any player placed on the IR list counts against the salary cap, but not against the roster limit. 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/9/3/16247956/nfl-roster-cuts-explaining-pup-nfi-ir-injury-designations

[Bronn]

8 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Lol. No wrong bro, you just need to accept defeat. His post June 1st cut is what it is.

My point of this thread was we don’t have cap space. Apparently from differing points of view our cap is either $2m, $1.7m, $239k or even negative if we bring Kalil back from IR. Point is we don’t have the cap space to trade for a big name or someone who could start. And none of that changes with any of that info. Whether the cap is $239k or $2m.

now for some reason we are arguing the finer points of Kalils contract. Which has already gone over. 

Gtfo it bro.

 

 

His entire argument is basically just arguing the semantics of "don't have the space" versus "do, if we convert Cam's salary"... I've given him pie a couple times for some good points he's made in rebuttals, but his tone is very condescending, repeatedly. Yes, I might have been a little condescending in my initial responses to the Calais Campbell thread, but I've obviously backed off the tone.

I still say that if we're gonna convert Cam's or someone else's salary to go after a DE or anyone via trade, why the heck would it be someone like Calais Campbell, as suggested in its own thread in these forums, versus someone younger on a worse team like, for instance, Chandler Jones?

I've kind of bowed out of the cap discussions for a while today because A. I think all this talk for big name/money players versus contract year/gap filling players is absurd and highly unlikely, and B. Some of the people arguing the flexibility of our cap are obviously way too emotionally invested in the discussion.

 

[AU-panther]

5 hours ago, Doc Holiday said:

Because KK just got his contract and Cam is about to get a new one, why take a pay cut, when you’re already getting paid and are about to get paid more? You don’t.

Never forget that the NFL is a business.

Matt Kalil took the hit to have his contract kill clause taken out. Players don’t make those moves unless they are gaining something from it. Cam and KK won’t be gaining anything more than they have.

The vast majority of times you hear about a player restructuring their contract they aren't taking a pay cut.  All they are dong is coverting salary into a bonus that is paid then.

It would be like your boss giving you the choice between $120,000 in January or $10,000 each month for the year.  Why would you not take it upfront?

With Cams salary this year alone you could free up around $7m.  Doesn't cost you anymore in the long run unless you plan on cutting Cam before the end of his contract.

[Toomers]

20 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Lol. No wrong bro, you just need to accept defeat. His post June 1st cut is what it is.

My point of this thread was we don’t have cap space. Apparently from differing points of view our cap is either $2m, $1.7m, $239k or even negative if we bring Kalil back from IR. Point is we don’t have the cap space to trade for a big name or someone who could start. And none of that changes with any of that info. Whether the cap is $239k or $2m.

now for some reason we are arguing the finer points of Kalils contract. Which has already gone over. 

Gtfo it bro.

 

 

 You’re point was to try and be the smartest guy in the room and proclaim we COULD NOT do something. I proved otherwise. Repeatedly. You have stuck with “cause I said so”. And deflected away from calling me out many times. What should I admit defeat about? Post anything of fact and we can talk.

[Doc Holiday]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 You’re point was to try and be the smartest guy in the room and proclaim we COULD NOT do something. I proved otherwise. Repeatedly. You have stuck with “cause I said so”. And deflected away from calling me out many times. What should I admit defeat about? Post anything of fact and we can talk.

This guy. I’m not arguing in circles anymore because you got pissy man. Lol

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, Bronn said:

His entire argument is basically just arguing the semantics of "don't have the space" versus "do, if we convert Cam's salary"... I've given him pie a couple times for some good points he's made in rebuttals, but his tone is very condescending, repeatedly. Yes, I might have been a little condescending in my initial responses to the Calais Campbell thread, but I've obviously backed off the tone.

I still say that if we're gonna convert Cam's or someone else's salary to go after a DE or anyone via trade, why the heck would it be someone like Calais Campbell, as suggested in its own thread in these forums, versus someone younger on a worse team like, for instance, Chandler Jones?

I've kind of bowed out of the cap discussions for a while today because A. I think all this talk for big name/money players versus contract year/gap filling players is absurd and highly unlikely, and B. Some of the people arguing the flexibility of our cap are obviously way too emotionally invested in the discussion.

 

My entire argument is someone saying plainly stated facts are wrong. If that’s condescending, I’ll live with it. If people speak in absolutes, and preach to the board doing it, be prepared for opposing views. What’s worse? 

  I explained my position from the beginning when we discussed it. Haven’t changed anything. We had no issue. I even said any player besides Cam is risky. Difference is, you didn’t just start making up random stuff to support yourself. And call me out for knowing nothing while posting comically wrong information. Yea. My bad.