FYI: the panthers have no cap space

[RumHam]

Actually can't we go negative until a specific date?

[trueblade]

8 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

Saints tho are fuged for next year, they don’t have the cap or the draft picks to do anything, they have gone all in on the Super bowl for this year and leveraged next year in doing so. If they don’t win the Super Bowl this is going to backfire on them bad.

I'm not so sure. They hit such a home run in the '17 draft, they've got a great young core on a rookie deals. This gives them all kinds of flexibility. As long as DB9 is under center, they'll have a chance in every game they play.

[panther4life]

Toomers is Right, restructures to free up cap space are something that’s almost always beneficial to the players. It’s just converting their base salary to a guaranteed bonus that you can spread the cap hit over multiple years. In some regards it can cripple a team if you hand out a signing bonus to the wrong player(Matt Kalil) and make it more costly against the cap to cut them vs keeping them, as the bonus automatically accelerates to the current year when cut vs being spread out over multiple years. Granted you can spread the “dead money” over 2 years if done as a post June 1st cut. 

It’s basically taking out a loan against future cap years to create immediate space. Fairly harmless if it’s done with a player like Cam or Luke, who there’s virtually a 0% chance you’d cut before their contract expires, but does kick the can down the road.

Hurney was famous for these restructures and that’s where the original term “Hurney Magic” came from, when he did this a lot. Freed up space but in short term but cost in long term.

Here’s an actual article on it, so you don’t have to take my word for it. https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-contract-restructuring-takes-advantage-of-loophole-2013-2

This type of restructure gives the player more financial security and guarantees their salary, so it’s a no brainer for them. It’s not the same as asking them to take an outright pay cut.

Also, not enough to do much with but we do currently have just over 2 Million according to the NFLPA website, which is surely more accurate than spotrac.

[Toomers]

28 minutes ago, Bronn said:

The next two years won't be fun offseasons people.

Here's a look at people who's contracts are up next year:
Ryan Kalil (retiring and UFA)
Thomas Davis (retiring and UFA)
Pep (retiring again? UFA)
Mike Adams (retiring? UFA)
CJ Anderson
Marshall Newhouse
Eric Reid
Devin Funchess
Wes Horton
Fozzy Whittaker
Colin Jones
Kyle Love
Chris Clark
Amini Silatolu
Ben Jacobs
Daryl Williams
Taylor Heinicke
David Mayo
CAP
Manhertz (RFA)
Byrd (RFA)
Norris (RFA)
Cox and Obada are both ERFA

2020 UFAs:
Addison
Torrey Smith
Cockrell
Searcy
Shaq
Bradberry
Van Roten
Hawkins
Seymour

We're gonna need cap flexibility just to stay afloat. Bad contracts on guys like Matt Kalil and Munnerlyn are hurting us right now. One could argue that the last thing we need to do is to make things harder in the next few years on us financially.

Other than offering Daryl Williams, most are vet minimum or easily replacement older players. We will have close to 50M to spend. And if a restructure was used to acquire a non guaranteed contract ,at a below market rate for next year, do it. Better than a high priced FA that can kill your cap with one injury. 

  Cam should never have more than a 1M base salary. The rest should be used yearly. But I agree that any other player is a risk. Which is why I limit it to franchise QBs. If things go bad at QB, your team is screwed anyhow, usually. 

[FakePlasticTrees]

You can restructure contracts to create salary cap space. If you convert base salary into a signing bonus you can then spread the signing bonus out over the remaining years of the contract. The conversions pushes part the players earnings into later years and creates cap space in the year in which the conversion occurs.

You would only do this on players you expect to remain with the team (like QBs). The player simply gets his money now rather than in the future. It is a win/win with one caveat: you are pushing part of the players salary into future years albeit years in which the salary cap is expected to rise.

Also, there is also the post June 1 designation you can use for cut players to lessen the immediate cap implications of a cut player.

[Proudiddy]

44 minutes ago, Bronn said:

The next two years won't be fun offseasons people.

Here's a look at people who's contracts are up next year:
Ryan Kalil (retiring and UFA)
Thomas Davis (retiring and UFA)
Pep (retiring again? UFA)
Mike Adams (retiring? UFA)
CJ Anderson
Marshall Newhouse
Eric Reid
Devin Funchess
Wes Horton
Fozzy Whittaker
Colin Jones
Kyle Love
Chris Clark
Amini Silatolu
Ben Jacobs
Daryl Williams
Taylor Heinicke
David Mayo
CAP
Manhertz (RFA)
Byrd (RFA)
Norris (RFA)
Cox and Obada are both ERFA

2020 UFAs:
Addison
Torrey Smith
Cockrell
Searcy
Shaq
Bradberry
Van Roten
Hawkins
Seymour

We're gonna need cap flexibility just to stay afloat. Bad contracts on guys like Matt Kalil and Munnerlyn are hurting us right now. One could argue that the last thing we need to do is to make things harder in the next few years on us financially.

I'm not advocating one side or the other of the argument, but again, teams like the Cowboys, Saints, Redskins, and Broncos sign and trade for players every year up against the cap...  it's possible to make moves with some manipulation of the cap and salaries, and we do need a pass rusher.

IIRC, many here were celebrating when the Taints extended Brees a few years ago that they were instantly doomed to cap hell and would have zero assets with which to build around Brees as a result...  like people here literally were waiting for the contract to start destroying their roster from within...  sure, they had an incredible draft last year and that helped, but they've been active in the offseason market each and every year and haven't missed a beat.

 

[coralreefer_1]

16 hours ago, Toomers said:

Why wouldn’t Cam or KK want all their game checks from this year right now. That’s the easy part. No player turns that down. 

  You want to discuss anything involving the salary cap, let’s do it. You are telling me I know nothing, yet you don’t have a clue on a simple restructure. 

  There is only one of us speaking from a position of ignorance. And I’ve proven many times it ain’t me. What else you got...

both of you are talking out your ass...because BOTH of you are nobodys that are not an agent, nor a player, not a GM. All either of you know is poo you read on the internet that is the table scraps of the REAL people that make deals, misc articles for 7th hand information from ex agents...etc. 

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

1. that’s not how that works buddy. 

2. Look it up, Marty redid his contract and took out the kill clause for post this year.

its why we need to make him a post June 1st cut if we are going to cut him now. Lol

go brush up on your contract info and will talk to you later, I’m done arguing with someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about but thinks they do. Seriously. 

 

Then tell me how it works? I’ve explained every statement I made. You have given anything more than “ because I said so”. Show me one thing that proves anything you said. Anything? 

 And I’ll defer to anyone on board. Most on here know I’ve proven that about Matt Kalil’s contract so many times it’s exhausting. Ask around. 

  Nothing like coming in here and claiming superiority and being proven ignorant. I certainly understand why you don’t want to continue our discussion. You look worse every word you type. Sad but typical.

[Doc Holiday]

5 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Toomers is Right, restructures to free up cap space are something that’s almost always beneficial to the players. It’s just converting their base salary to a guaranteed bonus that you can spread the cap hit over multiple years. In some regards it can cripple a team if you hand out a signing bonus to the wrong player(Matt Kalil) and make it more costly against the cap to cut them vs keeping them, as the bonus automatically accelerates to the current year when cut vs being spread out over multiple years. Granted you can spread the “dead money” over 2 years if done as a post June 1st cut. 

It’s basically taking out a loan against future cap years to create immediate space. Fairly harmless if it’s done with a player like Cam or Luke, who there’s virtually a 0% chance you’d cut before their contract expires, but does kick the can down the road.

Hurney was famous for these restructures and that’s where the original term “Hurney Magic” came from, when he did this a lot. Freed up space but in short term but cost in long term.

Here’s an actual article on it, so you don’t have to take my word for it. https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-contract-restructuring-takes-advantage-of-loophole-2013-2

This type of restructure gives the player more financial security and guarantees their salary, so it’s a no brainer for them. It’s not the same as asking them to take an outright pay cut.

Also, not enough to do much with but we do currently have just over 2 Million according to the NFLPA website, which is surely more accurate than spotrac.

But you don’t want to make a habit of leveraging your future. 

As I mentioned earlier the saints have now fuged themselves for next year. 

You don’t make moves like this unless youre going for a super bowl win. We aren’t that good this year. Not yet anyways. This is how we got into CAP hell with Marty v1.0 if y’all forgot.

id rather play it safe and see how the youth movement goes next year.

im against leveraging the future, never seen where that has turned out well with the panthers.

[Toomers]

8 minutes ago, coralreefer_1 said:

both of you are talking out your ass...because BOTH of you are nobodys that are not an agent, nor a player, not a GM. All either of you know is poo you read on the internet that is the table scraps of the REAL people that make deals, misc articles for 7th hand information from ex agents...etc. 

Is it weird I feel better about myself now? Gotta consider the source.

[Doc Holiday]

2 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Then tell me how it works? I’ve explained every statement I made. You have given anything more than “ because I said so”. Show me one thing that proves anything you said. Anything? 

 And I’ll defer to anyone on board. Most on here know I’ve proven that about Matt Kalil’s contract so many times it’s exhausting. Ask around. 

  Nothing like coming in here and claiming superiority and being proven ignorant. I certainly understand why you don’t want to continue our discussion. You look worse every word you type. Sad but typical.

See my last post, there are also a few others in here why that’s a bad idea. 

Mot saying we can’t do what you’re saying. It’s just a bad idea. 

My statement in regards to Cam and KK’s contract is still true though, especially cams.

[bababoey]

Actually our cap space is about 2 million not 200,000.  But that is while Matt Kalil is on IR.  Once he comes off we probably go over so someone is going to have to restructure for that. 

https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report

[Proudiddy]

1 minute ago, Doc Holiday said:

But you don’t want to make a habit of leveraging your future. 

As I mentioned earlier the saints have now fuged themselves for next year. 

You don’t make moves like this unless youre going for a super bowl win. We aren’t that good this year. Not yet anyways. This is how we got into CAP hell with Marty v1.0 if y’all forgot.

id rather play it safe and see how the youth movement goes next year.

im against leveraging the future, never seen where that has turned out well with the panthers.

I know you're well-versed in the cap, but several things I disagree with here...

As i said in my other post, this board has been claiming the Taints would be in a irreparable cap hell for years since Brees re-upped two extensions ago, IIRC.  It's not happening, they are active every year, so the cap is manageable, no matter how bad your contracts are.

Also, you saying it's "not worth restructuring to make a deal because we aren't close to making a run for a Superbowl," isn't rooted in numbers, that is rooted in opinion.  Did you think we had a Superbowl-worthy, 15-1 roster in 2015 until it happened?  Not many did until we got there, but we made moves along the way to prepare ourselves for that run.  This year is no different.  We have some flaws, but you never know how it will all come together, and I still argue, this is the most talented roster from top-to-bottom that we have had in Cam and Luke's tenure.  So, if we have a weakness that is worth addressing, we need to do so...  a pass rusher, a solid tackle, or a corner are all worth exploring for the right price.

[Toomers]

Just now, Doc Holiday said:

See my last post, there are also a few others in here why that’s a bad idea. 

Mot saying we can’t do what you’re saying. It’s just a bad idea. 

My statement in regards to Cam and KK’s contract is still true though, especially cams.

Ahh hell no. That’s is not at all the issue. You aren’t running away that easy. 

 

You said everything i posted was WRONG. Let’s hear why? Or are you incapable of backing up even one thing you said. I don’t care if it’s a good or bad idea. This is about you stating facts are wrong, but you are right. 

And don’t forget about Matt Kalil. I want to hear how your right there too. Should be easy if you’re so sure