4 Simple question for Jake defenders.

[bleys]

So lets come up with more reason why it's not Jakes fault.

His dad didn't throw a football with him when he was young. He plays with contact and the pharmacy gave him the wrong pair which stop him from seeing the Defenders on the other teams in front of his WR. Anymore why it's not Jakes fault.

By the way he was sack 2 times in the Buc game 1 his fault the other Oline. But the point is he had time too throw a great running game going and he still threw 2 int's. Plus he only threw for 65 yards.

Cowboy game 2 int's 1 sack oline played good he still sucked.

That's all you have? Here's is you're problem.. You have it built up in your mind that people think Delhomme is elite. That they are making excuses for Delhomme. When in fact they are simply pointing out bigger issues than Delhomme. So I'm debating with a moron who thinks Bulger, Pennington, and Romo are better than Delhomme.. who are exact replicates of Delhomme.

and you're only valid point is a game I already pointed out was Delhomme's fault. How many games have we played? And btw, QB pressures count too...

Sorry to name call, the word was meant in it's purest form...

You obviously aren't using any rational thought...

[koolkatluke]

They brought in Stewart because Fox prefers two good running backs as part of his offensive package. It's a power running game and rotating between two heavy hitters wears down a defense like nothing else can.

And to a prior post, Seifert did draft Smitty, but didn't do much with developing him, both as a player and a man. He's come a long ways to get to the top.

Do you know what you are talking about? I don't think you do.

1st that draft was filled with RB who could have been great 1-2 punches. They could have gotten Forte in the 2nd T Chioce in the 3rd and that's just off the top of my head. We would have had a 1st round pick this year. No they got JStew because Dwill wasn't Fox type of runningback. He didn't think Dwill could take the load. Fox thought Dwill was more of a scat back. Jstew was picked too be the starter but he got hurt missed most of TC and preseason. Dwill showed what he really is and now we have 2 1st round backs.

This is what happen.

[CRA]

Jake has not made good decisions overall. His accuracy has flat out been horrible. If he isn't under-throwing the receiver, he's over-throwing him (which is ironic)...

But to say the OLine isn't a bigger issue is crazy. We have no run game. We have no pass protection. To ignore this as the biggest reason for rushed throws/bad decision making is something I cannot comprehend.

TB was the 1 game where Jake is to blame by himself. Those 2 picks were clearly all his fault. There have been times in other games where this has been the case.

But you cannot sit here and tell me Delhomme is flat out horrible and then say the gap between him and Big Ben is not that great. Your basis is that the gap is that great or else what are we sitting here talking about?

Ben keeps plays alive with a bad OLine because he's huge and scrambles like hell... That's a HUGE gap from what Delhomme and most other QBs can do. You do not see other QBs do what Ben does, so therefore the Gap is that much different. It's not just Jake that Ben makes look average...

So... yet again... I cannot comprehend how you all are coming up with this stuff. It's totally a contradiction of your other posts...

Yes, let me repeat. Jake has been bad at times where the OLine has managed to protect. But that's a much more rare occasion than you all are giving credit to. Throw in no run game at all, and this is magnified..

from AZ forward...the running backs have had success. The Skins game is probably the only one the RBs were really bottled up well throughout the course of a game....Jake and Fox are the only reason the ground game hasn't been there on other games. Simply not running b/c of playcalling or turnovers taking it away....doesn't mean there hasn't been a run game. In the majority of thoes games the reason for the lack of a run game is Davidson AND Jake. Not the OL and RBs.

[koolkatluke]

That's all you have? So I'm debating with a moron who thinks Bulger, Pennington, and Romo are better than Delhomme.. who are exact replicates of Delhomme.

and you're only valid point is a game I already pointed out was Delhomme's fault. How many games have we played? And btw, QB pressures count too...

Sorry to name call, the word was meant in it's purest form...

You obviously aren't using any rational thought and I'll discuss further with CRA who has shown he uses some sort of intelligence in his thought process.

Your the F'n Moron! Jake has better talent on his team then either QB. But all have better # or are more accurate then Jake.

[bleys]

Your the F'n Moron! Jake has better talent on his team then either QB. But all have better # or are more accurate then Jake.

lmao.. in 5 years, go back and read your posts. Maybe by then you'll realize how ridiculous they sound.

[koolkatluke]

Read your post

1st I never called Jake elite I said he was a above avg. GAME MANAGER!!!

My whole point about this thread is that if a game manager QB start turning over the ball he is no help too the team. If he can't win the game for you anymore but he seem to be able too give it away then what good is he.

[3MTA3]

Somebody needs to get a hold of Gross,Otah,Wharton,King or someone working on the o-line, cause they are the one's defending Jake, week end and week out!

[bleys]

from AZ forward...the running backs have had success. The Skins game is probably the only one the RBs were really bottled up well throughout the course of a game....Jake and Fox are the only reason the ground game hasn't been there on other games. Simply not running b/c of playcalling or turnovers taking it away....doesn't mean there hasn't been a run game. In the majority of thoes games the reason for the lack of a run game is Davidson AND Jake. Not the OL and RBs.

Phi - 25att 74yards

ATL - 25att 144yards

Dallas - 14att 63yards

Wash - 28att 79yrds

Bucs - 47att 262yards

With all things considered... I'd say our run game is falling short. Our last game boosted our total rushing yards plus the ATL game where we know ATL's run defense is rather porous...

The only game we didn't put in a solid amount of attempts was the Dallas game. The Skins game wasn't the only game where we didn't have success.. We've had success 2 out of 5 games running the ball against bad run defenses...

[Spike]

Was the Seatle game garbage time? How about Dallas, garbage time too?

The garbage time I was referring to was at the end of games where we were already down by big margins. All the defense was doing was pinning their ears back and going after the QB.

Moore was awful against Dallas...barely completed 50% of his passes, threw a pick, and got sacked 5 times for 35 yards, had a passer rating of 70.

[koolkatluke]

Phi - 25att 74yards

ATL - 25att 144yards

Dallas - 14att 63yards

Wash - 28att 79yrds

Bucs - 47att 262yards

With all things considered... I'd say our run game is falling short. Our last game boosted our total rushing yards plus the ATL game where we know ATL's run defense is rather porous...

The only game we didn't put in a solid amount of attempts was the Dallas game. The Skins game wasn't the only game where we didn't have success.. We've had success 2 out of 5 games running the ball against bad run defenses...

That's just to explain our run game this season so far... But to your point that play calling isn't the issue, why are we saying Passing the ball more than running it is an issue?

Play calling has limited that role a bit, as we threw a lot. So have 3 and outs. Not just turnovers...

Has Davidson/Fox and Jake had an impact? Yes.

Has the OLine been successful at running the ball? No.

Has the OLine been successful at protecting the passer? Hardly so.. Include drive killers like false starts...

You need one to have the other.

Did if ever cross your mind that the running game took a while too come on because their is no reason too fear the pass.

Teams are playing 8 in the box and doubleing steve daring jake too find someone else and beat them until jake can show that. Which we have already said he is not making good choices. Or he is not holding on too the ball. Either way sooner or later Jake will have too prove he can beat a team without Steve and the running game. Or it will be Moore time soon enough.

[bleys]

Did if ever cross your mind that the running game took a while too come on because their is no reason too fear the pass.

Teams are playing 8 in the box and doubleing steve daring jake too find someone else and beat them until jake can show that. Which we have already said he is not making good choices. Or he is not holding on too the ball. Either way sooner or later Jake will have too prove he can beat a team without Steve and the running game Or without blocking.. Or it will be Moore time soon enough.

Fixed... and you think Delhomme is to be expected to win games without his #1 receiver, a run game, and obviously I have to assume a #2,3,4 receiver since we have no threat there... This, is truly amazing...

However you expect Moore to do that is beyond me.

The guy said our run game was successful minus the Washington game. Obviously, my only point there was to show our run game has been lacking.

All of this goes back to our OLine being the bigger issue, whether run or pass...

Thanks for backing me up on that one...

[Khyber53]

Koolkat, you're swinging at phantoms here.

Fox has always shot for two first rate running backs, one battering ram and one slashing type. It keeps a defense caught between the warp and weft of the game.

And I don't think that we'd rather have Forte than Stewart as the complimentary back to DWill, do you? Really? I mean, maybe on a fantasy team, but not on a real team.

This team, and the coach, don't suck. They have problems, they have issues, but they do still have what, 11 games left this year to turn it around? I've got faith that they will, with the personnel we have.

Heck, the NFC South is far from tied up in a neat package for New Orleans yet, or even Atlanta. An injury here or there, or a string of opponents on an upswing and it's cellar dweller again. Atlanta still has to play us at home (where they don't do as well), New Orleans has to face us twice (and historically, we've had the better of them, even in down years), and well, we do have Tampa again this year at home.

Have some faith and have some pride in the fact that the team is actually getting its act together. It ain't all there yet, but it is coming together.

Besides, I love it when we win close ones in the fourth quarter. I'm not that big on making it to the parking lot early to beat the traffic. And a lot of "fans" have been in their cars on the way home only to have to listen on the radio to how Jake is bringing the team back in a game. Sucks to bail out early and miss the come from behind win, doesn't it?

So don't head to the parking lot quite yet, okay?

[X-Clown]

Moore was awful against Dallas...barely completed 50% of his passes, threw a pick, and got sacked 5 times for 35 yards, had a passer rating of 70.

If you are just looking at the stats and didn't take into account the situation it occurred in, sure. But this was a different O-line which was wretched in pass protection against the 3rd best team in the league in sacks (which rushed a lot of his throws).

[CRA]

Phi - 25att 74yards

ATL - 25att 144yards

Dallas - 14att 63yards

Wash - 28att 79yrds

Bucs - 47att 262yards

With all things considered... I'd say our run game is falling short. Our last game boosted our total rushing yards plus the ATL game where we know ATL's run defense is rather porous...

You need one to have the other.

DeAngelo/Stew:

5.7 y/c against Atl

5.5 y/c against Tampa

4.5 y/c against Dallas

I think we both agree that those two did a great job when called upon in those 3 games.

Now for the other two. The stats in Philly are very misleading....

1st Q - 4.5 y/c against Philly

and the end of the half 3.8 y/c at point in the game. At that point Jake had sabatoaged the game and was pulled. Philly was up 31-10. Jake was pulled in the 3rd and the game was over....there was 1 run play prior to him being pulled in the 3rd.

So again, all in all. Outside the Washington game where the run was bottled up for the majority of the game...the OL/RBs have been there in that aspect...

the lack of production production from Williams and Stewart can't be used....because the one game they were bottled up...Carolina won. The Philly game is misleading unless you breakdown the stats a tad more. Jake and Davidson limited them from doing more...but they were doing there job and should have been allowed to do more.