We had the slowest paced offense in 2017, currently tied for 4th slowest this season

[pantherclaw]

Oh no, #mikeholiday is pooping all my posts, yet has nothing noteworthy to add to the conversation. What a waste.

[GoobyPls]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Interesting that a majority of the debate is that Rivera and Norv want the offense to use up all the clock and Cam is a victim. The elephant in the room to me is that the slowness appears to be by Cam's desire not Rivera's.  How many times does he waste 5 seconds signaling a first down. Then he walks back to the huddle. Then he seems to take time slowly coming out of the huddle and saunters up to the line. Honestly he never seems to be in a hurry. Remember his on field mike cuts off at 15 seconds so you can always assume that he has the play by then. Most likely by 20 seconds. Then he admitted he often needs help with the play call which takes more time. Seems to me that he takes up the whole time he has by his design and pace not because he is told to slow it down. 

This discussion doesn't include times when we hurry up like the 2 min drill or when we are milking time off the clock at the end of the game purposefully.

Maybe it is me but I have intentionally watched the clock and Newton's actions and he seems to rarely be in a hurry.   

Cam whose passer rating, comp%, ypa and ypc all get better in the no huddle hurry up offense, Cam who won a Hiesman and national championship  running a fast pace no huddle offense, is the one who doesn’t want to run that type of offense 

 

LMAO

 

Not the guy who said and I quote “I'm not quite sure what the real, true benefit is other than having a few more plays," Rivera said Thursday, per The Charlotte Observer. "People say, 'Well, you get 75, 80 plays going faster.' You also can go 1-2-3 and out faster and put the other team back on the field faster. So which is it?"”

There's some stretches if you go out there and you go too fast and make a mistake, and all of a sudden your defense is back out there. Now your defense is getting worn down. Is that a good thing, too?"

 

 

But yeah it’s Cam

 

[GoobyPls]

5 hours ago, t96 said:

Yep look at Chip Kelly's historic fast paced offense and how long that lasted here...

Nobody is saying we have to be the fastest pace, but to be one of the slowest on a yearly basis makes no sense.

 

btw is Chip was our coach our offense would be unstoppable to the point the defense wouldn’t matter.

[FugAllY'all]

A 60 minute scoring drive would win every game, just sayin'.

[GoobyPls]

10 hours ago, caatfan said:

The Colts have the fastest pace. How's that working for them? The Saints, at 4-1 and with the most points in the league, are only .44 sec and 3 positions ahead of us. I would submit that in the world of significant stats, this one is near the bottom of the barrel. 

.44 is a lot over a game stretch

 

Did you not see Monday’s game? They ran a ton of fast pace offense, more than we have all season. Those numbers even out cause when they blow out teams they start milking the clock. 

 

Teams like Iike the patriots and NO also know how to balance out the tempo, meanwhile we just run slow pace offense exclusively 

[panthers55]

4 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Cam whose passer rating, comp%, ypa and ypc all get better in the no huddle hurry up offense, Cam who won a Hiesman and national championship  running a fast pace no huddle offense, is the one who doesn’t want to run that type of offense 

 

LMAO

 

Not the guy who said and I quote “I'm not quite sure what the real, true benefit is other than having a few more plays," Rivera said Thursday, per The Charlotte Observer. "People say, 'Well, you get 75, 80 plays going faster.' You also can go 1-2-3 and out faster and put the other team back on the field faster. So which is it?"”

There's some stretches if you go out there and you go too fast and make a mistake, and all of a sudden your defense is back out there. Now your defense is getting worn down. Is that a good thing, too?"

 

 

But yeah it’s Cam

 

More erroneous facts mixed with opinion.  While I couldn't find any specific hurry up stats I used the last two minutes of the half and looked at passing stats this year.  While it is only 4 games, his passing percentage in the last 2 minutes  (59.1%)is no better than the second half (60.0) and less than the first half (72.7%). The yards per completion are a yard less in the last 2 minutes versus the second or first half.  His passer rating during the last 2 minutes is lower than the second half and much lower than the first half. So no if we can assume that we pass in the last two minutes with a no huddle often against a prevent defense then we would conclude that he isn't better in a no huddle for Norv and this offense. 

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats?season=2018

BTW look at the stats for 2015 when this rumor got started.  He was worse in the last 2 minutes of the half compared to either half.

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats?season=2015

 

Actually the no huddle argument has no bearing on my observation that he never seems to be in a hurry so it was irrelevant but I posted what I did to show once again you are wrong in your facts.  Which undermines your whole argument.  Unless you have no huddle stats I couldn't find.  Anyone??

[GoobyPls]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

More erroneous facts mixed with opinion.  While I couldn't find any specific hurry up stats I used the last two minutes of the half and looked at passing stats this year.  While it is only 4 games, his passing percentage in the last 2 minutes  (59.1%)is no better than the second half (60.0) and less than the first half (72.7%). The yards per completion are a yard less in the last 2 minutes versus the second or first half.  His passer rating during the last 2 minutes is lower than the second half and much lower than the first half. So no if we can assume that we pass in the last two minutes with a no huddle often against a prevent defense then we would conclude that he isn't better in a no huddle for Norv and this offense. 

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats?season=2018

BTW look at the stats for 2015 when this rumor got started.  He was worse in the last 2 minutes of the half compared to either half.

http://www.nfl.com/player/camnewton/2495455/situationalstats?season=2015

 

Actually the no huddle argument has no bearing on my observation that he never seems to be in a hurry so it was irrelevant but I posted what I did to show once again you are wrong in your facts.  Which undermines your whole argument.  Unless you have no huddle stats I couldn't find.  Anyone??

So according to you last 2 minutes of the half automatically means fast pace offense. Do you even watch the games? We have literally ran the out the clock the last 2 minutes of the half the majority of Ron tenured.

 

You literally have no response for Rivera quotes. Cam isn’t in a hurry cause Rivera tells him to slow it down. I don’t need stats I have eyes, the Atlanta game which was Cam best passing game, we were playing fast paced the majority of it, no cosincedence it was Cam’s best game. Or last year in the playoffs when we’re down to saints we went fast pace, Cam again had a good game.

[Ace_Aladdin]

5 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

You literally have no response for Rivera quotes. Cam isn’t in a hurry cause Rivera tells him to slow it down. I don’t need stats I have eyes, the Atlanta game

Unless you are seeing CAM walking to the sidelines before each play you are blatantly lying. Norv and players are fault for not moving with urgency after getting the play call, players are suppose to execute. 

[panthers55]

5 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

So according to you last 2 minutes of the half automatically means fast pace offense. Do you even watch the games? We have literally ran the out the clock the last 2 minutes of the half the majority of Ron tenured.

 

You literally have no response for Rivera quotes. Cam isn’t in a hurry cause Rivera tells him to slow it down. I don’t need stats I have eyes, the Atlanta game which was Cam best passing game, we were playing fast paced the majority of it, no cosincedence it was Cam’s best game. Or last year in the playoffs when we’re down to saints we went fast pace, Cam again had a good game.

What I said was excluding the last two minutes  and when we purposely slow down  the offense, Cam runs the offense like he is in no hurry.  Then I showed you were you were wrong on the hurry up again pointing out it was irrelevent to the argument as we're the ram quotes but just showed you were wrong. Now you  persist with your unrelated arguments using your personal observations and presented no facts. Stick to the argument which is that Cam is the reason we use the whole 40 second clock on most plays or even that he is better in the 2 minute drill which statistically he isn't. 

Why do you even argue? Even when you try using facts you skew them and are wrong every time. Most times you aren't even arguing the same issue but bringing up off the wall comments and random.opinions.

[imminent rogaine]

23 hours ago, London Loves Luke said:

If you want me to give you credit for saying "defence is a good thing" then you're in the wrong place...

The I-formation absolutely does work and continues to be used and has nothing to do with the pace of your offence. 

 

For real. The patriots use I-formation, power runs, 21 personnel, etc. all the time. The saints have desperately been trying to run the ball more - and we will see that with Ingram back.

The rams come to mind when thinking of a modern, fast-paced, unrelenting offense. But not everyone can be as stacked on both sides of the ball like the rams are this year. They also have elite coaching on both sides - maybe the best duo in the NFL. But even with that, don’t think they won’t line up heavy and run Gurly down someone’s throat.

Trying to win in time-of-possession is a good idea. Especially when you have a middle of the pack secondary and a line that is failing to generate pass rush. 

[GoobyPls]

5 hours ago, panthers55 said:

What I said was excluding the last two minutes  and when we purposely slow down  the offense, Cam runs the offense like he is in no hurry.  Then I showed you were you were wrong on the hurry up again pointing out it was irrelevent to the argument as we're the ram quotes but just showed you were wrong. Now you  persist with your unrelated arguments using your personal observations and presented no facts. Stick to the argument which is that Cam is the reason we use the whole 40 second clock on most plays or even that he is better in the 2 minute drill which statistically he isn't. 

Why do you even argue? Even when you try using facts you skew them and are wrong every time. Most times you aren't even arguing the same issue but bringing up off the wall comments and random.opinions.

What hurry up stats have you shown? You continue to avoid the Rivera quote like a plague, the man himself said it but yes it’s Cam cause it fits your narrative. I bring up the Atlanta game as proof, you again avoid the topic, cause it doesn’t fit your narrative. BTW on your little 2 minute stat which has nothing to do with face pace offense, Cam had a 4-1 TD-int ratio and 88 passer rating last season, both better than his regualr season averages.

 

You have no argument but “hurr durr I don’t see Cam in a hurry to snap the ball” well no chit Sherlock, he’s not going to go up against his head coach’s game plan 

[panthers55]

48 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

What hurry up stats have you shown? You continue to avoid the Rivera quote like a plague, the man himself said it but yes it’s Cam cause it fits your narrative. I bring up the Atlanta game as proof, you again avoid the topic, cause it doesn’t fit your narrative. BTW on your little 2 minute stat which has nothing to do with face pace offense, Cam had a 4-1 TD-int ratio and 88 passer rating last season, both better than his regualr season averages.

 

You have no argument but “hurr durr I don’t see Cam in a hurry to snap the ball” well no chit Sherlock, he’s not going to go up against his head coach’s game plan 

Then find a better stat. I know there are advanced stats from somewhere showing the hurry up. Until then this is the best stat there is and beats your no stats to say he is better. And again that whole issue isn't germaine to the discussion.

Nor is the Rivera quote germaine to my point. You seem to be arguing a point no one else is debating and totally.missing the point of my original post. No one  is arguing that Rivera doesn't  uses ball control and likes to run to extend time of possession. That is not in debate. And no one says Cam dictates the pace of the game from play to play. But his clock management from end of one play until he snaps the ball is slow and deliberate. But even when Cam uses the hurry up he trots along and takes his time. Look when he called the pass play instead of spiking  the ball after the big pass reception at the end. He took almost 5 seconds to snap.the ball once folks were set. It is his pace and style, he does things slowly. Within the 40 seconds Cam takes his time and uses it all which ultimately impacts the play of the game and pace. Not a criticism simply an observation. So unless you have facts to back up your opinions stop wasting everyone's time with your conjectire and red herring issues.

[nogoodbum]

If I recall correctly, early in Cam's career there was some chatter about his huddle actions [quick in & out or slow in & out] being a "Tell" about play calls. Afterword his actions seemed to be more deliberate [maybe just my eyes only]. Maybe Cam has gotten a bit too deliberate?

[panthers55]

What people don't seem to consider is the possibility that neither Rivera or Turner are holding Cam back. All three of them want the same thing, to win on Sunday. What if everything has been built around and designed for Cam. Including the pace of the game. If Norv thought they needed to speed things up don't you think that would be happening regardless of Rivera's preferences as long as we were scoring points.  If we weren't then it opens up more debate. I wonder if Cam operates best in this deliberate offense or would look better in a West Coast or E-P offense.  Which best matches his persona which is the energetic kid mixed with the cool and calm veteran professional. Norv has seen it all and done it all. I just believe that Cam is undergoing a growth process as he understands the offense at a deeper level. He is going to read defenses and see opportunities he didn't before. Norv understands offense and how to teach it to quarterbacks. He has his protege son to teach Cam the nuances that he may have missed before. I plan to sit back and watch the evolution of this offense. I hope it keeps getting better and Olsen makes an impactful return.