What do we do with Williams/Moton?

[thefuzz]

I'm still not sure how Williams earned a Pro Bowl berth.

[Toomers]

4 hours ago, jbland said:

In summary, it’s because his cap hit is huge until after the 2019 season. 

   It’s still huge then(9.8M). Except that n your scenario, we pay him ANOTHER 7M to sit around in 2019 and do nothing like this year. He’s gone after this season. 

[jbland]

58 minutes ago, Toomers said:

   It’s still huge then(9.8M). Except that n your scenario, we pay him ANOTHER 7M to sit around in 2019 and do nothing like this year. He’s gone after this season. 

If we wait until 2020 we get 6 million in cap savings. If we cut him after this season he costs us his salary plus adds 2 million more for his signing bonus. So we would have 16 million in dead money... at least that’s how I understand it. 

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, jbland said:

If we wait until 2020 we get 6 million in cap savings. If we cut him after this season he costs us his salary plus adds 2 million more for his signing bonus. So we would have 16 million in dead money... at least that’s how I understand it. 

 You cut him after this season and eat 14.7M over two years. 4.9M in 2019. 9.8M in 2020. You are giving him 7M more to sit and he would still have the same 9.8M dead cap hit left in 2020. That 7M is guaranteed IF he gets injured. Which is why he’s on “menstral leave” now. 

  It’s confusing, but bottom line is he gone after season. 

[jbland]

25 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 You cut him after this season and eat 14.7M over two years. 4.9M in 2019. 9.8M in 2020. You are giving him 7M more to sit and he would still have the same 9.8M dead cap hit left in 2020. That 7M is guaranteed IF he gets injured. Which is why he’s on “menstral leave” now. 

  It’s confusing, but bottom line is he gone after season. 

I hope you’re right. He’s been useless thus far. 

[shaqattaq]

17 hours ago, jbland said:

We can’t cut Matt until after 2019. 

I understand that, but Moton is on his rookie contract through 2020. We don't have to spend money for him until well after we break ties with Matt. We get Ryan's $10 million back next year, just in time for Williams' new contract.

EDIT: any time I mention contracts, I feel obligated to include that Van Roton is kicking ass on a brand spanking new 2 year , $1.66 million year deal. that just makes me feel all tingly inside. Go Marty!

[Jon Snow]

1 hour ago, shaqattaq said:

I understand that, but Moton is on his rookie contract through 2020. We don't have to spend money for him until well after we break ties with Matt. We get Ryan's $10 million back next year, just in time for Williams' new contract.

EDIT: any time I mention contracts, I feel obligated to include that Van Roton is kicking ass on a brand spanking new 2 year , $1.66 million year deal. that just makes me feel all tingly inside. Go Marty!

It means that Marty will give him a 10 mil a year raise at the end of the season, you know for past performance and all.

 

[AU-panther]

4 hours ago, jbland said:

If we wait until 2020 we get 6 million in cap savings. If we cut him after this season he costs us his salary plus adds 2 million more for his signing bonus. So we would have 16 million in dead money... at least that’s how I understand it. 

I'll try to explain it a different way.  If you cut him next year his cap hit will be $14,700,000.  If you keep him it will be $12,150,000.  So if you cut him, you lose $2,555,000 which seems bad but its really not the correct way to look at it. 

First of all, you could do a post June 1st cut which would spread that $14.7m over two season. Personally I think some people confuse themselves with all of the June first options so I just like looking at the total numbers of keeping him vs releasing him.

If you release him next summer his cap charge will be $14,700,000.

If you release him summer of 2020 his total cost will be $12,150,000 (his 2019 cap charge) + $9,800,000 (his remaining dead money at that point) = $21,950,000.

The only question that matters is does the front office feel like one extra year of being on the roster is worth $7,250,000.

Release him summer of 2019:    $14,700,000 total cap cost.

Release him summer of 2020:     $21,950,000 total cap cost

I need to add that is one other factor that might come into play and basically just change everything I just wrote.  According to overthecap.com https://overthecap.com/player/matt-kalil/1793/ his 2019 salary is guaranteed for injury at the time of signing.  If he doesn't get health by then all of the above numbers are wrong.

 

[MillionDollarCam]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

I'll try to explain it a different way.  If you cut him next year his cap hit will be $14,700,000.  If you keep him it will be $12,150,000.  So if you cut him, you lose $2,555,000 which seems bad but its really not the correct way to look at it. 

First of all, you could do a post June 1st cut which would spread that $14.7m over two season. Personally I think some people confuse themselves with all of the June first options so I just like looking at the total numbers of keeping him vs releasing him.

If you release him next summer his cap charge will be $14,700,000.

If you release him summer of 2020 his total cost will be $12,150,000 (his 2019 cap charge) + $9,800,000 (his remaining dead money at that point) = $21,950,000.

The only question that matters is does the front office feel like one extra year of being on the roster is worth $7,250,000.

Release him summer of 2019:    $14,700,000 total cap cost.

Release him summer of 2020:     $21,950,000 total cap cost

I need to add that is one other factor that might come into play and basically just change everything I just wrote.  According to overthecap.com https://overthecap.com/player/matt-kalil/1793/ his 2019 salary is guaranteed for injury at the time of signing.  If he doesn't get health by then all of the above numbers are wrong.

 

His cap charge and his dead money aren’t added together, it’s just his dead money if he’s cut.

2019 Dead Cap Hit: $14.7M (split across next to seasons)

2020 Dead Cap Hit: $9.8M

The out in his contract occurs in 2020 when his cap hit is $15.9M but his dead cap is only $9.8M which saves a good amount of money.

The argument is that keeping him and giving him an extra 7M to be on the roster next year isn’t worth it because if he’s kept he would still have a dead cap of $9.8M the following year.

It’s just wise to give him his signing bonus and call it day. We eat the $4.9M on him next year and $9.8M the year after that. Each one of those numbers is less than what it would cost for him to be on the roster.

If Kalil is cut next year, according to Spotrac:

Post 6/1 saves $7.25M on the cap because his dead cap will be $4.9M instead of the original 12.15M hit.

[Snake]

On 10/10/2018 at 1:49 PM, Mage said:

Re-sign Williams (depending on his asking price) and slide Moton to LT.

Seems unlikely we'll be able to re-sign him though.   Even with his injury, even decent offensive lineman cost a lot.

After coming off a MCL and (possible) ACL tear I would feel his price would be realistic seeing how he want be read to go by preseason. 

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, MillionDollarCam said:

His cap charge and his dead money aren’t added together, it’s just his dead money if he’s cut.

2019 Dead Cap Hit: $14.7M (split across next to seasons)

2020 Dead Cap Hit: $9.8M

The out in his contract occurs in 2020 when his cap hit is $15.9M but his dead cap is only $9.8M which saves a good amount of money.

The argument is that keeping him and giving him an extra 7M to be on the roster next year isn’t worth it because if he’s kept he would still have a dead cap of $9.8M the following year.

It’s just wise to give him his signing bonus and call it day. We eat the $4.9M on him next year and $9.8M the year after that. Each one of those numbers is less than what it would cost for him to be on the roster.

If Kalil is cut next year, according to Spotrac:

Post 6/1 saves $7.25M on the cap because his dead cap will be $4.9M instead of the original 12.15M hit.

But if you keep him until summer of 2020 you will have had a $12.15m cap hit for the 2019 season and then after you release him you will have to account for another $9.8m which will be the left over dead money.  That is why I added them together.  It might help people to understand the total cost of him being on the roster for one more year as opposed to being released next summer.

If he is on the roster for the 2019 season and then released in the summer of 2020 he will have accounted for $21.95m worth of cap space.  If you release him next summer he will count $14.7m.

There is nothing you can do about that $14.7m, all of that is dead money.  People get caught up in the June 1st numbers but it really doesn't save you anything in the long term, all you are doing is spreading the charge out over 2 seasons.  With that being said there would be no reason not to do a June 1 cut and gain the cap space a year early,   It rolls over so if you don't use it, its still the same amount overall.

 

 

[Immortal]

We need them both. As we have seen time and time again our depth is lacking. and rarely these guys play all season. 

 

I don't see why we have to pull out the bank for Williams. The whole NFL market is extremely fuged up. Look at josh Norman. HUGE deal based off 1 or 2 good years. He's missed games, he's not been worth that money.

 

I guess it all comes down to the personality of the player. Does he just want money? Does he love the guys and the team and is down to earth? 

 

I must imagine being a modern day NFL GM isn't easy. The market is fuging nuts. It really makes 0 sense.

[MillionDollarCam]

13 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

But if you keep him until summer of 2020 you will have had a $12.15m cap hit for the 2019 season and then after you release him you will have to account for another $9.8m which will be the left over dead money.  That is why I added them together.  It might help people to understand the total cost of him being on the roster for one more year as opposed to being released next summer.

If he is on the roster for the 2019 season and then released in the summer of 2020 he will have accounted for $21.95m worth of cap space.  If you release him next summer he will count $14.7m.

There is nothing you can do about that $14.7m, all of that is dead money.  People get caught up in the June 1st numbers but it really doesn't save you anything in the long term, all you are doing is spreading the charge out over 2 seasons.  With that being said there would be no reason not to do a June 1 cut and gain the cap space a year early,   It rolls over so if you don't use it, its still the same amount overall.

 

 

My mistake, I see what you were doing there.

[imminent rogaine]

On 10/10/2018 at 2:32 PM, Cracka McNasty said:

I think we can lock Williams up long term. Peppers, R. Kalil, and possibly TD and Mike Adams are all retiring at the end of the year. That will free up a ton of Cap space we can use on locking Williams up. Slide Moton to LT, designate M kalil as a June 1st cut and spread that travesty of a cap hit across two years, Let Funchess and Smith walk rolling with Samuel, Moore, Wright, and rookie 3rd round tall WR. Sign Cameron Brate to a reasonable contract if Greg retires, sign/draft DE early, Re-sign Eric Reid to a longer term deal if he isn't hot garbage (won't be much Safeties don't make much these days), Slide Gaulden into Vacant Safety slot (or draft someone better because I have no faith in him).

Baby, you've got a stew going. 

I like how you think. Depth at LB should ease the Davis loss and not obligate us to really seak out a replacement. I’d prob bring Shaq back. I’d also Let Captain walk if it makes sense w the cap.