“Am I watching the same team as y’all” Part 2 (message for the homers edition)

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ras977 said:

OK-  RR has faults, but he's gotten us there--I have to "keep the faith".

PS-I I believe it was Henning ,not Foxy, who changed SB 38 or whatever  ?

Henning changed the offensive game plan. Trgovac also made defensive adjustments.

It all still falls under Fox, of course, just like Shula's decisions fall on Rivera.

[ras977]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Henning changed the offensive game plan. Trgovac also made defensive adjustments.

It all still falls under Fox, of course, just like Shula's decisions fall on Rivera.

Back to Rivera--you can't give it up.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Mage said:

What?

Who in the world is capable of doing anything before they've done it if we're going by this logic?  How can you not see how flawed this is?

The evidence is literally in the fact they made it to the Super Bowl.  Unless you think our odds of winning that game were 0%, then how can you possibly believe he's incapable of winning a game he made it to?  We were only down 6 midway through the 4th.  We absolutely had a chance to win.  

I mean what evidence was there MJ could win an NBA Championship before he did it?  Curry?  Belichick?  Brady?  Walsh?

Like come on.

And as I pointed out, Jim Caldwell, Bobby Ross, Bill Callahan, etc. all "made it to the Super Bowl".

If we were looking for a new head coach, would you call any of those guys?

[ras977]

2 minutes ago, Mage said:

So do you think Rivera was in charge of Tolbert fumbling?

I mean we were only down by 6 midway through the 4th.  Do you think Rivera was responsible for Tolbert fumbling on the Broncos side of the field, thus costing us a potential score?

Yes, I believe Scot thinks this is a fact.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ras977 said:

Back to Rivera--you can't give it up.

That's your spin. It's not what I actually said.

I pointed out that the actions of the assistant coaches wind up getting credited to (or blamed on) whoever's in charge, and rightly so.

As mentioned, it can be argued that Wade Phillips is more responsible for the Broncos Victory than Gary Kubiak, but it's still Kubiak's name that goes in the record books.

[panthers55]

4 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

After being told that “ALL the evidence” is against me I figured I’d go look at stats.

No one is saying Ron Rivera is the world’s worst coach (although he is close) but many people here believe he will not get this team over that final last hump. 

Well to no ones surprise minus @Doc Holiday and @Rags the leaders of the “3-1 record” crowd, Ron Rivera’s record isn’t all that good (against the good teams).

I went back and looked at our record in each season against teams that made the playoffs THAT year.

Overall Ron is 15-24-1

2011: 1-6

2012: 2-3

2013: 3-2

2014: 1-4-1

2015: 4-0

2016: 0-5

2017: 4-4

I know the “homers” are going to immediately rule out his rookie year because it was his first season. They’re also the type that want to subtract the one bad outing from a pitchers record to help make the case for a CY Young award. Even so, you subtract a 1-6 record from his overall record and he’s still below .500 (14-18-1).

This is why many of us have grown tired with Rivera. Nothing ever seems to change and when it matters the most he’s often left looking lost. 

This team has a ton of talent and we’re so close to where we want to end up, Rivera just isn’t the guy to take us there. The longer we wait the smaller that window gets...

This team has a ton of talent this year but until this year that is laughable. First of all our offensive line talent has been poor. The coaching staff had done a great job with substandard talent. Secondly the secondary and wide receiver groups have been rated the worse in the league. Thirdly you have to look at their records when we played them not at the end of the season. After all if we beat them that contributed to them having a losing season. Plus if they were 6-4 when we played them and they finish 7-9, we beat a winning team when we played them.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, ras977 said:

Yes, I believe Scot thinks this is a fact.

That's a really dumb statement.

If you're going to debate this, at least keep it rational.

[Mage]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And as I pointed out, Jim Caldwell, Bobby Ross, Bill Callahan, etc. all "made it to the Super Bowl".

If we were looking for a new head coach, would you call any of those guys?

Why don't you answer the question?  Are Gary Kubiak and Jon Gruden better than Andy Reid and Marty Schottenheimer?

[ras977]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

That's your spin. It's not what I actually said.

I pointed out that the actions of the assistant coaches wind up getting credited to (or blamed on) whoever's in charge, and rightly so.

As mentioned, it can be argued that Wade Phillips is more responsible for the Broncos Victory than Gary Kubiak, but it's still Kubiak's name that goes in the record books.

No, its your spin.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Mage said:

So do you think Rivera was in charge of Tolbert fumbling?

I mean we were only down by 6 midway through the 4th.  Do you think Rivera was responsible for Tolbert fumbling on the Broncos side of the field, thus costing us a potential score?

Does Rivera get credit for Cam Newton making a successful pass?

This is a really stupid argument.

[ras977]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's a really dumb statement.

If you're going to debate this, at least keep it rational.

Why? The old saying--"i'm playing to my audience ".

[Mage]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's a really dumb statement.

If you're going to debate this, at least keep it rational.

You're not keeping it rational though.  Your argument is "he can't win a Super Bowl because he hasn't proven he can yet."  

[Mage]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Does Rivera get credit for Cam Newton making a successful pass?

This is a really stupid argument.

Coming from the guy who is saying "someone can't win something because they haven't proven they can yet".  

In a game where we were down only 6 midway through the 4th, Tolbert not fumbling while on Denver's side could have changed everything.  Who knows, maybe we score a TD.  We at least get a FG which changes the whole dynamic.  So much context is lost because all you wanna argue is, "Rivera lost thus Rivera not capable of winning a Super Bowl".

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Mage said:

Why don't you answer the question?  Are Gary Kubiak and Jon Gruden better than Andy Reid and Marty Schottenheimer?

Better coaches? Not really.

More successful coaches? Sure.

If you really want to talk about successful coaches without rings though, you haven't touched on the most obvious example.