“Am I watching the same team as y’all” Part 2 (message for the homers edition)

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

It's terrible logic though.  Only 1 team can win a Super Bowl a year.  It's an incredibly hard thing to do.

LIS, Patriots went almost a full decade before they won another one.  If they can't win a Super Bowl in 8-9 seasons, does that mean they were no longer capable?  Did they just "magically" remember how to win one?

I think some of you underestimate how hard it is to win.  I mean, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.  Does that mean he wasn't capable?  No, it just means he had some bad breaks.

And I'm not even that big of a Rivera fan.  I've probably even made a thread here asking if we should move on.  But this idea we can't win with someone who literally was the head coach for a team that went to the Super Bowl is just so nonsensical.  Same with Reid.  I mean, is it really Reid's fault his team ran into a dominant Patriots team at the peak of their dynasty?  Are we really gonna say he can't win a Super Bowl because of that?  Is it Rivera's fault he ran into an all-time great defense?

You can say Rivera isn't the best HC or something like that.  I won't disagree.  But of course we can win with him.  He's not incompetent.  We've already proven we can get to the big stage with him.

I definitely don't underestimate how hard it is to win a Super Bowl.

Knowing exactly how hard it is is one of the big reasons why I question whether Rivera is capable of doing it.

[Mage]

I mean hell we're talking about which HCs can win a Super Bowl, look at the one for that Broncos team that season.  Gary Kubiak.  Gary Kubiak is not a good head coach.  But because he won the Super Bowl, are we gonna say he's more capable than Andy Reid?

Gimme a break.  Winning a Super Bowl is just hard as hell to do.  It took Bill Cowher foreverrr before he won one.  Ish happens.

 

[Darvinsun]

In the last 8yrs who has been to the superbowl repeatedly. Patriots and Seahawks. So they are and were the standard. 49ers were also a hot team.We have only been hot once since Rivera been here 2015 and in that SB he looked completely foolished. He was out coached by another defensive mind which is suppose to be his strong point. I dont get how u can be a defensive mind and not understand offenses. That is what separates belicheck from eveyone else he understands the complete game.  He has had 8yrs to figure this out with roughly the same base players and we are no better than anyone else.Season vet coach and til has tendencies of a rookie coach and these tendencies that he has are not little ones that will not affect the outcome of a game. No coach is perfect but just as u all say CAM needs to fix his accuracy or when Cam use to spin to his left trying to make a play haven't seen that in a while. What about Ron Rivera have u seen him lately.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

When did I say it was anything to brag about?

You're missing the point.  We were closer to winning the Super Bowl than 30 other teams that year.  So yes, I'd say we almost won it relative to the league (are we also ignoring the fact it was a 6 point game until late in the 4th? it wasn't like we didn't stand a chance, and comparing it to the Patriots/Bears 85 game is laughable).

Using your logic, the Patriots were "closer to winning the Super Bowl than 30 other teams" and thus could be considered to have "almost won it".

The same could be said of the Bills in their games against the Cowboys.

[Mage]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I definitely don't underestimate how hard it is to win a Super Bowl.

Knowing exactly how hard it is is one of the big reasons why I question whether Rivera is capable of doing it.

BUT WE MADE IT TO THE SUPER BOWL!

I mean come on.  Please explain to me how Ron Rivera, who was the head coach for a team that made it to the Super Bowl, is somehow literally incapable of winning one?  Are you saying that he can take a team to the Super Bowl, but by default he simply can't win it for some mysterious reason?

There is literally no reason to think Rivera has any less chance or capability of winning a Super Bowl than any other HC in the league not named Bill Belichick.  He's been to a Super Bowl more recently than guys like Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid, etc.  This idea that we can't win a Super Bowl with him is flat-out illogical.  It makes no sense.   He's gotten closer more recently than all of those guys.  

[brandon_87]

3 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Jesus... I seriously have to spell this out for some of you...

Ron struggles against the good teams. 

Which teams make the playoffs? The good ones. Which teams do we need to beat to win the super bowl? Playoff teams. 

If he was even just .500 that would be “ok-ish” but he’s not even close. 

I'm glad you pointed it out to this board, although I don't think many will open their eyes and comprehend what you're explaining 

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Using your logic, the Patriots were "closer to winning the Super Bowl than 30 other teams" and thus could be considered to have "almost won it".

The same could be said of the Bills in their games against the Cowboys.

Jesus dude, you are so much smarter than this.  We were down 6 points until late in the 4th.  How in the hell is that comparable to the Bills getting blown out by 35 points?  But yes, I would absolutely say the 2nd Super Bowl the Bills/Cowboys played where the Bills led 13-6 at halftime they almost won.

But again, once again, you are missing the point.  The point is we made it to the Super Bowl.  If he can do that, he can win one, unless you think there is some mysterious force that prevents him from coaching a winning formula once he gets in said game.  Which would be dumb.

[ras977]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

BUT WE MADE IT TO THE SUPER BOWL!

I mean come on.  Please explain to me how Ron Rivera, who was the head coach for a team that made it to the Super Bowl, is somehow literally incapable of winning one?  Are you saying that he can take a team to the Super Bowl, but by default he simply can't win it for some mysterious reason?

There is literally no reason to think Rivera has any less chance or capability of winning a Super Bowl than any other HC in the league not named Bill Belichick.  He's been to a Super Bowl more recently than guys like Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid, etc.  This idea that we can't win a Super Bowl with him is flat-out illogical.  It makes no sense.   He's gotten closer more recently than all of those guys.  

Scot brings much more to this forum than anyone

Saying that, he has an illogical , almost irrational. view on Rivera--Scot wants him gone.

We're 3-1--lets see how this plays out. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

BUT WE MADE IT TO THE SUPER BOWL!

I mean come on.  Please explain to me how Ron Rivera, who was the head coach for a team that made it to the Super Bowl, is somehow literally incapable of winning one?  Are you saying that he can take a team to the Super Bowl, but by default he simply can't win it for some mysterious reason?

There is literally no reason to think Rivera has any less chance or capability of winning a Super Bowl than any other HC in the league not named Bill Belichick.  He's been to a Super Bowl more recently than guys like Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid, etc.  This idea that we can't win a Super Bowl with him is flat-out illogical.  It makes no sense.   He's gotten closer more recently than all of those guys.  

If "making it to the Super Bowl" makes a championship caliber coach, then Dan Quinn, Jim Caldwell, Jim Harbaugh, Bill Callahan, Bobby Ross and our old buddy John Fox are apparently much better head coaches than I thought they were.

[Mage]

58 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Here’s someone people often sh!t on...

2010 (first season) : 1-3 (1-1 in playoffs)

2011: 2-5

2012: 4-1 (1-1 in playoffs)

2013: 2-2 (3-0 in playoffs)

2014: 5-1 (2-1)

2015: 3-4 (1-1)

2016: 3-1 (1-1)

2017: 2-4

Overall: 22-21 (9-5 in playoffs)

Who craps on Pete Carroll other than fans who just don't like the Seahawks?  Anyone with common sense acknowledges he's a great head coach, and I even said the Seahawks probably buck the trend.

But those Seahawks teams were also loaded with talent.  As soon as they started slipping in that regard, what happened?  A losing record against playoff teams.  Shocker, right?  

I'm not saying Rivera is some elite head coach, but my point is his record against playoff teams is probably about the same as 90% of coaches (see: Payton, Reid).  Go and do your research on some other long-term coaches like Tomlin and Harbaugh.  I bet its about the same.

[Mage]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If "making it to the Super Bowl" makes a championship caliber coach, then Dan Quinn, Jim Caldwell, Jim Harbaugh, Bill Callahan, Bobby Ross and our old buddy John Fox are apparently much better head coaches than I thought they were.

Oh my goodness.  Are you being serious right now?

Okay, I'll shoot.  So what makes it where Rivera can take a team to the Super Bowl but in that one game, somehow there is a force that stops him from winning?  Please tell me what allows him to win an NFC Championship game (in dominant fashion) but literally incapable of winning a Super Bowl?

Or are you saying Gary Kubiak and Jon Gruden are more of a championship caliber coach than Andy Reid, Jim Harbaugh, Marty Schottenheimer, etc.?  Is that what you are saying?  Because they won a Super Bowl and those guys didn't, that they are championship caliber?  If so, I won't bother responding any further.

[Mage]

Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.  Thus not a Super Bowl caliber quarterback.  

Its funny because I don't even think that highly of Rivera as a head coach.  But a guy who took a team to a Super Bowl somehow not being capable of winning a Super Bowl is some of the dumbest logic ever spewed on this forum.  There isn't some force that somehow stops him from winning that game.  Its just a combination of luck and talent.  If Gary Kubiak can win a Super Bowl, then so can Rivera and Reid.  Arguing otherwise is foolish, I'm sorry but it just is.

[*FreeFua*]

50 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Dan Quinn is 7-9

Mike Tomlin 31-32

Sean Payton 29-41

All better than Rivera

 

@Mage

I think Harbaugh is 21-42 not good.

[Darvinsun]

6 minutes ago, Mage said:

BUT WE MADE IT TO THE SUPER BOWL!

I mean come on.  Please explain to me how Ron Rivera, who was the head coach for a team that made it to the Super Bowl, is somehow literally incapable of winning one?  Are you saying that he can take a team to the Super Bowl, but by default he simply can't win it for some mysterious reason?

There is literally no reason to think Rivera has any less chance or capability of winning a Super Bowl than any other HC in the league not named Bill Belichick.  He's been to a Super Bowl more recently than guys like Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid, etc.  This idea that we can't win a Super Bowl with him is flat-out illogical.  It makes no sense.   He's gotten closer more recently than all of those guys.  

His tendencies hives me every reason to believe that he will not win a SB. He is predictable as hell. 8 yrs and we are still complaining about his choices. The same ones! Most of them are no brainer decisions but he still lacks the killer instinct. You know points need to be svored and im not talking about 3 im talking bout 7. Everytime we get a lead we go back to just seeking 3 points. Last to me I checked 7 was greater than 3. I rather play tight coverage and let them throw a long ball at least I put confidence in my whole team and not just half.