“Am I watching the same team as y’all” Part 2 (message for the homers edition)

[pantherclaw]

Ask any coach, if they would stop doing what they do best. Seriously, go ask. 

[Mage]

We went 15-1 and made it to the Super Bowl.  We got manhandled, but its not Rivera's fault we went against an all-time great defense that owned our terrible receivers.  The idea that we can't win a Super Bowl with him is ridiculous considering we literally made it there.  If we had gotten paired with the Patriots, which we matched up with way better, I feel confident we could have won.

Same with Reid, albeit slightly different.  Our issue is we get really conservative, but that isn't always a bad thing in the playoffs contrary to popular belief; being conservative is OK sometimes.  Reid's issue is he doesn't know when to stop passing; that was one of the biggest reasons why the Colts came back against them.  Rivera isn't the best in regards to clock management, but he's WAYYY better than Reid's idea of how to manage a clock.  Still, I'd consider the idea that you can't win a Super Bowl with Reid to be ludicrous too.  Winning a Super Bowl is hard.  Just because a coach hasn't done it doesn't mean he can't.

Everyone mentions the Patriots, but what did they win between 2005-2013?  Which spans a longer time than Rivera has even been HC here.  What has Rodgers won since 2010 (again spanning longer than Rivera's tenure here)?  Can Rodgers not win another Super Bowl?  Its a hard thing to do.  It took the Patriots 10 seasons before they won another one.  This is Rivera's 8th.

We can win with Ron Rivera.  That doesn't mean we're going to.  Who knows.  I sure hope so.  But the idea you can't win a Super Bowl with a head coach who already BROUGHT YOUR TEAM TO THE SUPER BOWL, and still has your team performing at a playoff level (11-5 last year, 3-1 this year), is dumb.  Rivera isn't Belichick, but he's not Mike Singletary.  We can win with him.  We have won with him.  We will continue to win with him.  Why can't some of you just enjoy the success and hope for the best?

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, pantherclaw said:

Almost won us a Superbowl. 

I know almost doesn't count, but the point is, that decision isn't what lost us the Superbowl. 

You look at that game as "almost winning a Superbowl"?

Super Bowl 38 was almost winning a Superbowl. Super Bowl 50 wasn't even close. And that decision is probably the biggest reason why.

[Pantherxtreme]

Rivera will probably become the winningest coach in Panthers history this season passing John Fox and doing it in one less whole season. 

[*FreeFua*]

1 minute ago, pantherclaw said:

Ask any coach, if they would stop doing what they do best. Seriously, go ask. 

Ask any GOOD coach that question and tell them it’s the super bowl and literally nothing has been going your way to this point...

Yeah i’ll go ask that question

[*FreeFua*]

Just now, Pantherxtreme said:

Rivera will probably become the winningest coach in Panthers history this season passing John Fox and doing it in one less whole season. 

Is that supposed to be some sort of accomplishment?

[pantherclaw]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You look at that game as "almost winning a Superbowl"?

Super Bowl 38 was almost winning a Superbowl. Super Bowl 50 wasn't even close. And that decision is probably the biggest reason why.

Well, I see your heart has a death grip on that view point, so I'll just walk away. Ain't worth the arguement.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, pantherclaw said:

Well, I see your heart has a death grip on that view point, so I'll just walk away. Ain't worth the arguement.

You're flying the homer flag pretty hard here dude.

I think Rivera is a fantastic guy. I really want him to succeed, but wanting him to succeed and being absolutely certain that he will are two very different things.

Andy Reid has been added a lot longer and has a better record, but he hasn't shown that he can win a Super Bowl either.

[Mage]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You look at that game as "almost winning a Superbowl"?

Super Bowl 38 was almost winning a Superbowl. Super Bowl 50 wasn't even close. And that decision is probably the biggest reason why.

We were 1 of only 2 teams to make it to the Super Bowl that year out of 32.  We were literally closer than any other team to winning the Super Bowl that year other than the Broncos, who actually won it.

It was a poor performance but again, it was just a terrible match-up for us.  I knew that going into the game, which is why I was rooting for the Patriots.  Broncos D was historically good.  There isn't much of a game-plan you can come up with you counter Miller and Ware owning our bad tackles.  There isn't much of a game-plan you can come up with when Talib and Harris can just mug and own your wide receivers.  Even the Patriots with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick couldn't come up with a game-plan to counter it (pretty sure they went 0-2 against Broncos that year).

It was a bad game, but it doesn't prove anything.

[pantherclaw]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're flying the homer flag pretty hard here dude.

I think Rivera is a fantastic guy. I really want him to succeed, but wanting him to succeed and being absolutely certain that he will are two very different things.

Andy Reid has been added a lot longer and has a better record, but he hasn't shown that he can win a Super Bowl either.

Not even close.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Mage said:

We were 1 of only 2 teams to make it to the Super Bowl that year out of 32.  We were literally closer than any other team to winning the Super Bowl that year other than the Broncos, who actually won it.

It was a poor performance but again, it was just a terrible match-up for us.  I knew that going into the game, which is why I was rooting for the Patriots.  Broncos D was historically good.  There isn't much of a game-plan you can come up with you counter Miller and Ware owning our bad tackles.  There isn't much of a game-plan you can come up with when Talib and Harris can just mug and own your wide receivers.  Even the Patriots with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick couldn't come up with a game-plan to counter it (pretty sure they went 0-2 against Broncos that year).

It was a bad game, but it doesn't prove anything.

The 85 Patriots were also one of two teams to make the Super Bowl that year. I don't think they'd consider their game performance anything to brag about.

When even the Broncos players are shaking their heads that you didn't do anything different than what they'd already seen on film, that's a really bad look.

I'd add that if you go into a game knowing you have a bad matchup (and if you're a good coach you should know that) one of the things you do is to make adjustments. Even in mid-game, we could have slid an extra blocker over to Mike Remmers side.

Explain to me why a championship level coach doesn't even do that?

[pantherclaw]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

When even the Broncos players are shaking their heads that you didn't do anything different than what they'd already seen on film, that's a really bad look.

Yes, they could have added some wrinkles, but to expect a team to stop doing what they do best, is just as stupid as you claim Rivera's decision was. 

[Mage]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're flying the homer flag pretty hard here dude.

I think Rivera is a fantastic guy. I really want him to succeed, but wanting him to succeed and being absolutely certain that he will are two very different things.

Andy Reid has been added a lot longer and has a better record, but he hasn't shown that he can win a Super Bowl either.

It's terrible logic though.  Only 1 team can win a Super Bowl a year.  It's an incredibly hard thing to do.

LIS, Patriots went almost a full decade before they won another one.  If they can't win a Super Bowl in 8-9 seasons, does that mean they were no longer capable?  Did they just "magically" remember how to win one?

I think some of you underestimate how hard it is to win.  I mean, Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl.  Does that mean he wasn't capable?  No, it just means he had some bad breaks.

And I'm not even that big of a Rivera fan.  I've probably even made a thread here asking if we should move on.  But this idea we can't win with someone who literally was the head coach for a team that went to the Super Bowl is just so nonsensical.  Same with Reid.  I mean, is it really Reid's fault his team ran into a dominant Patriots team at the peak of their dynasty?  Are we really gonna say he can't win a Super Bowl because of that?  Is it Rivera's fault he ran into an all-time great defense?

You can say Rivera isn't the best HC or something like that.  I won't disagree.  But of course we can win with him.  He's not incompetent.  We've already proven we can get to the big stage with him.

[Mage]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The 85 Patriots were also one of two teams to make the Super Bowl that year. I don't think they'd consider their game performance anything to brag about.

When even the Broncos players are shaking their heads that you didn't do anything different than what they'd already seen on film, that's a really bad look.

When did I say it was anything to brag about?

You're missing the point.  We were closer to winning the Super Bowl than 30 other teams that year.  So yes, I'd say we almost won it relative to the league (are we also ignoring the fact it was a 6 point game until late in the 4th? it wasn't like we didn't stand a chance, and comparing it to the Patriots/Bears 85 game is laughable).