“Am I watching the same team as y’all” Part 2 (message for the homers edition)

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, Mage said:

Lets go beyond Sean Payton.  Lets look at Andy Reid.

2017:  4-2 (4-3 inc playoffs)

2016: 3-2 (3-3 inc playoffs)

2015: 3-4 (4-5 inc playoffs)

2014: 2-4

2013: 1-5 (1-6 inc playoffs)

13-17.  A better % than Rivera, albeit not by much, but doesn't take into account that playoff teams in the NFC >> playoff teams in the AFC for awhile now.  And Rivera coached a team to the Super Bowl in the same span; Chiefs haven't even made the AFC Championship game.  Is anyone gonna argue Andy Reid is a bad coach?

The point is: playoff teams lose games.  Their losses have to come from somewhere.  Would it be better if they beat other playoff teams and lost to bad teams?

Ron Rivera and Andy Reid are actually very similar in how they perform, which is part of the reason why people question whether Rivera can win a championship.

[mc52beast]

I would be interested to see what Ron’s record is against the best coaches in the League. Besides him obviously owning Bellichick lately I don’t know much about his record against other coaches.

[therealmjl]

my boy Fua stepped in with the ether !!! 

 

RIP

[shaka]

Here's a chart for 2008 to 2017, team records against playoff teams.  Ron's winning percentage of .375 would put him at #7.  Of course you can't just do that, its not even remotely the same scenario.  It's a different time period and isn't broken out by coach.  However it does paint a good picture of overall win% against playoff teams. 

Ron's .375% against playoff teams is actually pretty decent.  If you throw out the first year for some reason, it will of course only get better. 

 

 

Source:  https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/03/new-england-patriots-record-playoff-teams/

[*FreeFua*]

32 minutes ago, Mage said:

Lets go beyond Sean Payton.  Lets look at Andy Reid.

2017:  4-2 (4-3 inc playoffs)

2016: 3-2 (3-3 inc playoffs)

2015: 3-4 (4-5 inc playoffs)

2014: 2-4

2013: 1-5 (1-6 inc playoffs)

13-17.  A better % than Rivera, albeit not by much, but doesn't take into account that playoff teams in the NFC >> playoff teams in the AFC for awhile now.  And Rivera coached a team to the Super Bowl in the same span; Chiefs haven't even made the AFC Championship game.  Is anyone gonna argue Andy Reid is a bad coach?

The point is: playoff teams lose games.  Their losses have to come from somewhere.  Would it be better if they beat other playoff teams and lost to bad teams?

Here’s someone people often sh!t on...

2010 (first season) : 1-3 (1-1 in playoffs)

2011: 2-5

2012: 4-1 (1-1 in playoffs)

2013: 2-2 (3-0 in playoffs)

2014: 5-1 (2-1)

2015: 3-4 (1-1)

2016: 3-1 (1-1)

2017: 2-4

Overall: 22-21 (9-5 in playoffs)

[Peppers90 NC]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Ron Rivera and Andy Reid are actually very similar in how they perform, which is part of the reason why people question whether Rivera can win a championship.

Reid has been known to start out real hot and fizzle out by years end, whereas at least Rivera typically has his team playing their best ball then

[Mr. Scot]

@*FreeFua*, the problem with your argument here is that you're focusing on regular season games. That's not where the biggest questions about Rivera lie.

I'll repeat here what I said elsewhere...

At Super Bowl 38, John Fox's coaching staff saw that the game was going badly, so they flipped the script at halftime. And in doing so, they brought us closer to a championship than we've been at any point since.

Can anyone tell me what significant steps Rivera did to change how things were going at halftime of Super Bowl 50?

Do we know if he did anything at all? It's not like Rivera was known for great halftime adjustments even before that game.

And unfortunately, it's not just that.

There's also the fact that with two weeks to prepare, and having been blown up just a few weeks before, Rivera and staff chose to do nothing different.

I'm not really sure people understand just how unforgivably stupid a decision that really was.

You had a defensive genius like Wade Phillips on the other side. Philips had 18 games worth of game film to review, notably including the Atlanta game. And in the face of that, you choose to just go ahead and do the same things you were doing in the tapes that Phillips is watching.

Seriously?

I'm still waiting for anybody to take that comparison between how Fox (who is by no means an elite head coach) handled the Super Bowl and how Rivera did and argue that Rivera is a championship level coach. Keep in mind that Fox and his staff we're working with Jake Delhomme. Rivera had Cam Newton.

I don't think anybody disputes that Rivera is a good coach, and I'm not saying he should be fired now or even necessarily at the end of the season. This season's story is still largely yet to be written.

But if you think the ability of Ron Rivera to win a championship is above questioning, you're really letting your homer flag fly.

[*FreeFua*]

21 minutes ago, shaka said:

Here's a chart for 2008 to 2017, team records against playoff teams.  Ron's winning percentage of .375 would put him at #7.  Of course you can't just do that, its not even remotely the same scenario.  It's a different time period and isn't broken out by coach.  However it does paint a good picture of overall win% against playoff teams. 

Ron's .375% against playoff teams is actually pretty decent.  If you throw out the first year for some reason, it will of course only get better. 

 

 

Source:  https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/03/new-england-patriots-record-playoff-teams/

Dan Quinn is 7-9

Mike Tomlin 31-32

Sean Payton 29-41

All better than Rivera

 

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, Peppers90 NC said:

Reid has been known to start out real hot and fizzle out by years end, whereas at least Rivera typically has his team playing their best ball then

That's the typical script of a Rivera game, though.

[*FreeFua*]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

But if you think the ability of Ron Rivera to win a championship is above questioning, you're really letting your homer flag fly.

That’s basically all I’m getting at. This whole record thing is just the tip of the iceberg. It was mainly just for the ones who defend Rivera by constantly using his record and literally nothing more. 

Like you said, no one is saying he’s an awful coach but we’re at the point that “good” just isn’t good enough anymore.

Does Ron Rivera’s “good” win us a SB... I don’t think so

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, *FreeFua* said:

That’s basically all I’m getting at. This whole record thing is just the tip of the iceberg. It was mainly just for the ones who defend Rivera by constantly using his record and literally nothing more. 

Like you said, no one is saying he’s an awful coach but we’re at the point that “good” just isn’t good enough. 

Does Ron Rivera “good” win us a SB... I don’t think so

John Fox had arguably one of his best coaching performances in the Super Bowl with us.

When he got there, Ron Rivera did something incredibly stupid.

That's not something you can just write off.

[pantherclaw]

So, if I understand you correctly, Mr Scot, you expected Rivera and the team to stop doing what they did best, in the name of switching things up? 

Sorry, I see both sides of that arguement far to easily to just pickup that hammer, and beat that drum. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, pantherclaw said:

So, if I understand you correctly, Mr Scot, you expected Rivera and the team to stop doing what they did best, in the name of switching things up? 

Sorry, I see both sides of that arguement far to easily to just pickup that hammer, and beat that drum. 

How did that decision work out for us?

[pantherclaw]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

How did that decision work out for us?

Almost won us a Superbowl. 

I know almost doesn't count, but the point is, that decision isn't what lost us the Superbowl.