Head Coaches don’t grow on trees

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Just now, CPF4LIFE said:

When it comes to not finding anybody better......Ron Rivera got passed up 9 times before landing here. Knowing that, I would love an explanation from anybody here how they knew he would be a upgrade from fox prior to him being hired. I guarantee you didnt. 

I'm still not sure there is a lot of difference between the Panthers last two HCs. 

Conservative defensive minds with bad clock management skills and an over dependence on vets at the expense of young talent.

[MillionDollarCam]

21 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

When it comes to not finding anybody better......Ron Rivera got passed up 9 times before landing here. Knowing that, I would love an explanation from anybody here how they knew he would be a upgrade from fox prior to him being hired. I guarantee you didnt. 

I know you thought you were on to something but this was easy to pick a part.

Also your information is inaccurate.

Rivera was hired over eight times and most of the coaches hired over him are no longer employed.

Cam Cameron, Scott Linehan, Bobby Petrino... In fact only two coaches hired over Rivera (Tomlin and McCarthy) still have jobs. 

Funny enough, Rivera joins those two as one of only six coaches to make the playoffs four out of the last five years. Both of those coaches have won Super Bowls in their 11 and 12 year careers. Rivera is currently in his eighth year and may be on the cusp of winning his first, who knows.

[CPF4LIFE]

4 hours ago, MillionDollarCam said:

I know you thought you were on to something but this was easy to pick a part.

Also your information is inaccurate.

Rivera was hired over eight times and most of the coaches hired over him are no longer employed.

Cam Cameron, Scott Linehan, Bobby Petrino... In fact only two coaches hired over Rivera (Tomlin and McCarthy) still have jobs. 

Funny enough, Rivera joins those two as one of only six coaches to make the playoffs four out of the last five years. Both of those coaches have won Super Bowls in their 11 and 12 year careers. Rivera is currently in his eighth year and may be on the cusp of winning his first, who knows.

I know you think you were on to something but....8 times instead 9 is not a huge difference my friend and secondly what the hell does any of the rest that stuff have to do with my point of everybody saying he cant be replaced even tho nobody could predict him being better than Fox? The rest of those coaches didnt have cam newton and luke kuechly to keep them employed either just to answer your statement. Nice try trying to steer off course tho but that aint it. 

 

[Khyber53]

13 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not really.

Rivera is someone I root for. He's one of the nicest guys you could find. I'd love for him to succeed.

With that said, your prediction that he's going to get us to a championship holds about as much weight as the prediction that he never will. In other words, zero.

You could have used this exact same argument to stick with guys like Dennis Green, Marty Schottenheimer and others and always had "good but not good enough" seasons.  Sometimes you've got to realize that a guy just doesn't have what it takes to get to the next level.

Is that Rivera? My answer at this point is still "I don't know". But to suggest that it's not a valid question is to ignore some very serious issues.

Actually, Rivera did get us to the championship game (unlike both Green and Schottenheimer who sputtered out when they reached playoffs).  The prediction that Rivera can't make it to the championship is 0% and you are right about that, but off base when it comes to can he take this team to the championship game is already at 100% because he did, we just didn't win it.

Perhaps the Riverboat Ron title is pretty good for him, but not because he takes a big gamble now and then. You see, real professional gamblers play the long game winning small to medium hands at the poker table throughout the night and avoiding the big splash pots unless they know they have the win. He just keeps steadily winning and keeping a seat at the table, following strategies that work for him and getting the most out of the cards dealt to him. And when the big streak starts, he'll keep his head and follow through as far as it goes.

I've got faith in the guy and his ability to make, hold together and win with a team. He's our guy and while he might not be the flashiest, loudest or winningest coach (let's face it, this is the Belichick era), he's got a steady seat at the big table. And as long as you can get a seat at that table, you've always got a shot at the big prize.

[Rags]

19 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

I swear people would be satisfied with Marvin Lewis as HC. He always makes the playoffs!

One of these coaches has won multiple playoff games and made it to a Superbowl.

Thanks other coach hasn't won a single playoff game and constsntly loses his locker room and has a wildly undisciplined team.

Which one of these is Ron Rivera.

[MillionDollarCam]

2 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I know you think you were on to something but....8 times instead 9 is not a huge difference my friend and secondly what the hell does any of the rest that stuff have to do with my point of everybody saying he cant be replaced even tho nobody could predict him being better than Fox? The rest of those coaches didnt have cam newton and luke kuechly to keep them employed either just to answer your statement. Nice try trying to steer off course tho but that aint it. 

 

Big difference or not, facts are important and your facts were wrong.

The rest of the “stuff” goes to show you that it’s not easy to replace coaches, how can you not comprehend that? Only two of the coaches hired over Rivera still have jobs. Replacing a coach is difficult, especially a good one, it’s like playing with a bag of magic beans.

The example is quite easy to see and right in front of you. For every Tomlin and McCarthy there are multiple coaches that fail. 

It seems you would be okay with the Panthers taking that chance and potentially ending up with Bobby Petrino instead of experiencing the continued success that they have in the past.

[panthers55]

The idea that offense trumps defense and wins championships is totally backwards. Look no further than New Orleans with Brees or Indy under Manning. If offense won championships then Brees would have 5 rings instead of 1 and Manning would have had a bunch when he was in Indy. The only times that either got a ring was when their defenses played well to go along with their usual offensive outputs. When Manning got his ring in Denver is was the defense that got it not the offense.. 2 years earlier the Broncos were in the Superbowl with arguably one of the best offenses ever and got crushed by the Seahawks.

[panthers55]

We are 14-6 over the past 20 games. That is a 70% winning percentage in the regular season since 2017. So who replaces a winning coach by choice and it ends up much better? I remember the Chargers did it with Schottenheimer because of less than a stellar playoff record and they have struggled ever since. Maybe you could argue Kelly for Philadelphia but there were other issues were in play with them. It rarely happens for a reason....

[*FreeFua*]

Good ones don’t but Ron Rivera’s do

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Actually, Rivera did get us to the championship game (unlike both Green and Schottenheimer who sputtered out when they reached playoffs).  The prediction that Rivera can't make it to the championship is 0% and you are right about that, but off base when it comes to can he take this team to the championship game is already at 100% because he did, we just didn't win it.

Perhaps the Riverboat Ron title is pretty good for him, but not because he takes a big gamble now and then. You see, real professional gamblers play the long game winning small to medium hands at the poker table throughout the night and avoiding the big splash pots unless they know they have the win. He just keeps steadily winning and keeping a seat at the table, following strategies that work for him and getting the most out of the cards dealt to him. And when the big streak starts, he'll keep his head and follow through as far as it goes.

I've got faith in the guy and his ability to make, hold together and win with a team. He's our guy and while he might not be the flashiest, loudest or winningest coach (let's face it, this is the Belichick era), he's got a steady seat at the big table. And as long as you can get a seat at that table, you've always got a shot at the big prize.

Rivera did get us to a championship, but didn't win it. What concerns me about that is that he and the staff were pretty directly responsible for us not winning it. Their decision to just cruise with the plays and the game plan we already had was devastating.

And that kind of goes to the point...

Mediocre coaches have been known to make it to the Super Bowl. Bill Callahan, Bobby Ross and others have had a shot at it. To actually win a Super Bowl generally takes a higher level of coaching, and to be in consistent contention an even higher level than that.

I have no issue with saying Rivera is good, but I'm far from convinced that Rivera is that good, especially given what happened in the big game of 2015.

I'd add also that occurred under Gettleman. And while the roster still has a pretty strong Gettleman influence, I'm not convinced it's going to stay solid the longer Hurney has control of it. All but one season of his prior success came early last time, and it was mediocrity after that.

You do have to look at tandems in these things. Each person has their own role but how they work together makes a difference, especially in where they complement each other. Gettleman was strong in personnel evaluation, an area of weakness for Rivera. I definitely don't trust Hurney anywhere near as much on that front.

[Khyber53]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Rivera did get us to a championship, but didn't win it. What concerns me about that is that he and the staff were pretty directly responsible for us not winning it. Their decision to just cruise with the plays and the game plan we already had was devastating.

And that kind of goes to the point...

Mediocre coaches have been known to make it to the Super Bowl. Bill Callahan, Bobby Ross and others have had a shot at it. To actually win a Super Bowl generally takes a higher level of coaching, and to be in consistent contention an even higher level than that.

I have no issue with saying Rivera is good, but I'm far from convinced that Rivera is that good, especially given what happened in the big game of 2015.

I'd add also that occurred under Gettleman. And while the roster still has a pretty strong Gettleman influence, I'm not convinced it's going to stay solid the longer Hurney has control of it. All but one season of his prior success came early last time, and it was mediocrity after that.

You do have to look at tandems in these things. Each person has their own role but how they work together makes a difference, especially in where they complement each other. Gettleman was strong in personnel evaluation, an area of weakness for Rivera. I definitely don't trust Hurney anywhere near as much on that front.

While I have great respect for your opinions, I've just got to say you're wrong on this. History will bear one of us out.

Either way, RR's our guy and he's winning now. No reason to list off why he can't win, especially when he's winning.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

While I have great respect for your opinions, I've just got to say you're wrong on this. History will bear one of us out.

Either way, RR's our guy and he's winning now. No reason to list off why he can't win, especially when he's winning.

Don't question that he's winning so far this season. Still a lot of season to go, of course.

I absolutely hope he takes the next step. I'm definitely not convinced that he will. If he doesn't, then it becomes a question of how long you're willing to be patient. Mentioned it before, Bill Cowher took 15 seasons to win a championship. Are we willing to be that patient with Rivera?

Is David Tepper?

[Wolfcop]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:34 PM, Millioso7 said:

Turn the team around to where?

From making the playoffs to not, apparently. I hope we dont have to suffer through years of missing the playoffs to appreciate having a two-time NFL Coach of the Year. 

[KaseKlosed]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:19 PM, NAS said:

I will be the first to point out Rivera can be frustrating, especially when it comes to personnel decisions. But to use the cliché expressions, “the grass is not always greener”, and head coaches don’t “grow on treees”.  Who would you actually replace him with if you had the chance, that would give us a better chance at  a super bowl?

I can’t really think of anyone without taking a huge risk on a novice, which isn’t warranted when we have a winning record.  Sure there may be better Xa and Os kind of guys, but it’s not an easy job to manage an NFL locker room and keep the team competing on a weekly basis. 

Agreed, I also take in to account that RR had JR over his head and who knows what he was allowed to do and not allowed to do. For one he could not get rid of Mike Shula because of JR's relationship with the Shula family. Another positive note he is the most winningest coach in franchise history. Also he is coaching in the loaded NFC South and first ever coach to lead a NFC south team to 3 consecutive titles.  Most fans have no clue how hard this is and can not back up their argument for a new coach. #ImWithRon