Head Coaches don’t grow on trees

[MillionDollarCam]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

All of Rivera's successful years came with Gettleman in charge (yes, including last year).

Coach/GM tandems are a lot like QB/WR tandems. Sometimes you have to evaluate them together.

Which is why in my opinion you have to give him the year. People are calling for the head of a 3-1 coach. What happens if we go 11-5 and reach the playoffs? Is it still time to move on?

I’m all for revisiting the discussion at the end of the year but one close game shouldn’t immediately spark a change in the guards.

[MillionDollarCam]

The bottom line is we’ll find out how good this team is real quick.

I would say seven of the remaining games come against a team that is currently in playoff position or on the brink of playoff position.

If the team succeeds then it should really answer all the questions.

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Which is why in my opinion you have to give him the year. People are calling for the head of a 3-1 coach. What happens if we go 11-5 and reach the playoffs? Is it still time to move on?

I’m all for revisiting the discussion at the end of the year but one close game shouldn’t immediately spark a change in the guards.

Rivera is going to get the season. He's not getting fired mid-year, and he may not even be fired then.

That said, it's a fair question to ask whether Rivera is really good enough to win a championship.

[Pantherxtreme]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

You know, he has indeed taken us to a Super Bowl (where we performed well). He's taken us to the playoffs in other years as well. The team respects him and plays hard for him, and even his bad seasons are generally at least in the 7-9 range.

I mean sure, he can be overly conservative and he does tend to favor veterans. But if we're being honest, some of his problems likely do come down to bad player and bad assistant coach choices. And realistically, it might not be easy to find a good replacement.

I'm convinced.

We should hang on to John Fox. 

Well when Rivera leads the Panthers to a 2-14 record ala John Fox let me know where I can donate to the Fire Ron banner to fly across Bank of America stadium. Until then 2017 version of the Panthers finished 11-5 with a playoff trip, and the 2018 version are off to good start at 3-1. But outside of that the situations are very similar. 

[Davidson Deac II]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

There are solid head coaching candidates available every single year.

The notion that you can't fire the existing coach because there's nobody better is just ridiculous. That's the kind of philosophy that would have held on to Jeff Fisher instead of taking a chance on Sean McVay.

There are head coaches who might be good, but its never known until they actually take the job. The standards for a successful head coach in the NFL are so exacting that the vast majority of coaches end up failure.  History proves that the odds of finding a more successful head coach are slim.

 

For every Tony Dungy being replaced with Gruden leading to a SB win, there are several Schottenheimer replaced with Turner, or Reid replaced with Chip Kelly, or Cleveland replacing Bill B with Ted Marchibroda etc...

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Ron needs to focus on improving in the following areas that have held him back as a coach since his arrival:

- Clock Management/usage of time outs 

- Team's execution of two minute drill

- Loyalty to veteran players that are little more than dead weight

[Khyber53]

4 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

There are solid head coaching candidates available every single year.

The notion that you can't fire the existing coach because there's nobody better is just ridiculous. That's the kind of philosophy that would have held on to Jeff Fisher instead of taking a chance on Sean McVay.

And in opposition to this, I'd like to give you the Jets, the Browns, the Bills, the Dolphins, the Bucs, the Bears, the Redskins... all franchises that let someone go and have been chasing after, begging for and praying for a decent coach ever since. You get a coach that can get you into the playoffs 75% of the time and to the big dance, you keep him. 

 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

5 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

There are head coaches who might be good, but its never known until they actually take the job. The standards for a successful head coach in the NFL are so exacting that the vast majority of coaches end up failure.  History proves that the odds of finding a more successful head coach are slim.

For every Tony Dungy being replaced with Gruden leading to a SB win, there are several Schottenheimer replaced with Turner, or Reid replaced with Chip Kelly, or Cleveland replacing Bill B with Ted Marchibroda etc...

It is certainly no cinch that Ron's replacement would be any better.  Rivera's conservative in game decision making/lack of killer instinct aggravates me, but I don't see him as a lost cause at this point.

I do think that if the Panthers weren't led by Cam, chances are pretty good that Ron would have been gone years ago. 

[Mr. Scot]

23 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

And in opposition to this, I'd like to give you the Jets, the Browns, the Bills, the Dolphins, the Bucs, the Bears, the Redskins... all franchises that let someone go and have been chasing after, begging for and praying for a decent coach ever since. You get a coach that can get you into the playoffs 75% of the time and to the big dance, you keep him. 

 

Even if that's as far as he can get you?

Is Rivera continuing to win regular season games and sometimes playoff games good enough?

[Khyber53]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Even if that's as far as he can get you?

Is Rivera continuing to win regular season games and sometimes playoff games good enough?

A guy who does that always gives your team a shot at the big trophy. And I think he'll get it this season.

But ask those other teams' fans when they think they'll have a shot. Or when was the last time they had a shot at it.

I mean, there's always Detroit.

No team is perfect and no coach is a shoe in for winning it every year, although New England certainly comes close.

I think you've gotten too close to your own narrative and can't see the possibility that the guy so easily blamed for any failure (and honestly, some successes that just weren't sparkly enough for you), might actually be deserving of some admiration. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

A guy who does that always gives your team a shot at the big trophy. And I think he'll get it this season.

But ask those other teams' fans when they think they'll have a shot. Or when was the last time they had a shot at it.

I mean, there's always Detroit.

No team is perfect and no coach is a shoe in for winning it every year, although New England certainly comes close.

I think you've gotten too close to your own narrative and can't see the possibility that the guy so easily blamed for any failure (and honestly, some successes that just weren't sparkly enough for you), might actually be deserving of some admiration. 

Not really.

Rivera is someone I root for. He's one of the nicest guys you could find. I'd love for him to succeed.

With that said, your prediction that he's going to get us to a championship holds about as much weight as the prediction that he never will. In other words, zero.

You could have used this exact same argument to stick with guys like Dennis Green, Marty Schottenheimer and others and always had "good but not good enough" seasons.  Sometimes you've got to realize that a guy just doesn't have what it takes to get to the next level.

Is that Rivera? My answer at this point is still "I don't know". But to suggest that it's not a valid question is to ignore some very serious issues.

[pantherclaw]

We are winning, and y'all can't stop throwing shade at Ron. 

Lmao

[bobsfoodbasics]

Eric Bieniemy

There's your name.

[CPF4LIFE]

When it comes to not finding anybody better......Ron Rivera got passed up 9 times before landing here. Knowing that, I would love an explanation from anybody here how they knew he would be a upgrade from fox prior to him being hired. I guarantee you didnt.