Head Coaches don’t grow on trees

[Doc Holiday]

3 hours ago, KillaCamNewton said:

McVay

Shanahan 

Pederson

Payton

Carroll

Zimmer

Belichick 

 

Are all currently employed. You realize that right? They aren’t options for us to hire.

huddle gonna huddle.

and the huddle wanting us to fire a head coach who has had us in the playoffs in 4/5 seasons currently heading towards 5/6 seasons is the most asinine and huddle gonna huddle moment of all time!

[Fox007]

You can also say 3 winning seasons in 7. If we grant this one already that's still 50% 

That game yesterday is even more proof on the players carrying Rivera. Rivera did everything he could to lose that game and Gano pulls a 63 yard FG rofl. Usually it's Cam running for his life doing some other miracle. The coach "has us" as in holding us back is what he has.

The question will be more answered in the future regardless because when Rivera is fired after his first losing or 8-8 season we'll be shown to be correct. As in, your poo style of coaching sucks and we are looking for an excuse to chop you but you butt fumbled into victory enough to post pone that.

[Fox007]

dumb

[MillionDollarCam]

It’s funny that we point to McVay being a great coach but we don’t take a look at what the Rams went through in order to find him

McVay is a great coach but let’s not forget that the Rams missed the playoffs from 2005 to 2017 and went through SEVEN different head coaches and MOVING ACROSS THE DAMN COUNTRY to find him... all for a CHANCE at the Super Bowl, the same chance that the Panthers have had four out of the last five years.

Would any fan here honestly trade our past success for that? Winning the Super Bowl is hard and we’ve had great opportunities to do so, why would you sacrifice that consistency in HOPE of finding something better when it’s not guaranteed.

If Rivera had gone three consecutive years without making the playoffs then by all means can his ass. However, the Panthers have been consistently in the playoffs the past five years with a chance to win a Lombardi.

Firing the man would be foolish.

[Fox007]

12 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

It’s funny that we point to McVay being a great coach but we don’t take a look at what the Rams went through in order to find him

McVay is a great coach but let’s not forget that the Rams missed the playoffs from 2005 to 2017 and went through SEVEN different head coaches and MOVING ACROSS THE DAMN COUNTRY to find him... all for a CHANCE at the Super Bowl, the same chance that the Panthers have had four out of the last five years.

 Would any fan here honestly trade our past success for that? Winning the Super Bowl is hard and we’ve had great opportunities to do so, why would you sacrifice that consistency in HOPE of finding something better when it’s not guaranteed.

If Rivera had gone three consecutive years without making the playoffs then by all means can his ass. However, the Panthers have been consistently in the playoffs the past five years with a chance to win a Lombardi.

 Firing the man would be foolish.

Yea we get it you're very conservative like Ron.

It's not a bad thing in a vacuum. Some people just want better, it's that simple. There are examples of good teams changing coaches and it gets them over the top. There are examples of the Chargers getting rid of a 14-2 coach and still sucking.

Rivera hasn't improved and won't improve. It's like trying to build around Andy Dalton. You can give him AJ green and those RBs and whatever but. At the end of the day you have Andy Dalton. Rivera has Cam and Luke and Olsen but he's Andy Dalton.

So does it make more sense to just keep trying to add another WR, another LB to that defense. Or does it make more sense to get a different 'Andy Dalton'.

[FugAllY'all]

Ok McVay took over a team with a loaded roster playing in a division in steep decline. His immediate success is more a testament to how shitty Jeff Fisher was than how good McVay is. Yeah, he helped Goff get better, but we are talking about a first overall pick, it's not like he molded a lump of poo into gold. He's also never won a playoff game, or beaten the Atlanta Falcons, so let's hold off on thirsting for him over a coach who has.

[Mr. Scot]

You know, he has indeed taken us to a Super Bowl (where we performed well). He's taken us to the playoffs in other years as well. The team respects him and plays hard for him, and even his bad seasons are generally at least in the 7-9 range.

I mean sure, he can be overly conservative and he does tend to favor veterans. But if we're being honest, some of his problems likely do come down to bad player and bad assistant coach choices. And realistically, it might not be easy to find a good replacement.

I'm convinced.

We should hang on to John Fox. 

[Fox007]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You know, he has indeed taken us to a Super Bowl (where we performed well). He's taken us to the playoffs in other years as well. The team respects him and plays hard for him, and even his bad seasons are generally at least in the 7-9 range.

I mean sure, he can be overly conservative and he does tend to favor veterans. But if we're being honest, some of his problems likely do come down to bad player and bad assistant coach choices. And realistically, it might not be easy to find a good replacement.

I'm convinced.

We should hang on to John Fox. 

It writes itself.

 

But also an interesting note is how Fox got that Broncos team killed by an elite defense like Rivera did. John Fox also has/had the reputation for not changing things up and "just line up and take em boys"

Yea hard to just line up and take em boys when they know the play and counter it with a scheme they've developed.

And if you've played the game you know what it's like when you're up against a team that's figured you out.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

It writes itself.

 

But also an interesting note is how Fox got that Broncos team killed by an elite defense like Rivera did. John Fox also has/had the reputation for not changing things up and "just line up and take em boys"

Yea hard to just line up and take em boys when they know the play and counter it with a scheme they've developed.

People talking about how there's no guarantee we find a good coach if we let go of Rivera seem to have forgotten that we had to part ways with another "good coach" in order to hire Rivera.

[MillionDollarCam]

1 minute ago, Fox007 said:

Yea we get it you're very conservative like Ron.

It's not a bad thing in a vacuum. Some people just want better, it's that simple. There are examples of good teams changing coaches and it gets them over the top. There are examples of the Chargers getting rid of a 14-2 coach and still sucking.

Rivera hasn't improved and won't improve. It's like trying to build around Andy Dalton. You can give him AJ green and those RBs and whatever but. At the end of the day you have Andy Dalton. Rivera has Cam and Luke and Olsen but he's Andy Dalton.

So does it make more sense to just keep trying to add another WR, another LB to that defense. Or does it make more sense to get a different 'Andy Dalton'.

1. There are more examples of teams faltering after making a coaching change then there are of teams having continued success. If it was a guaranteed success then the Saints would have fired Payton three years ago when the Saints missed the playoffs under him for three straight years. The grass isn’t always greener mantra is annoying but it couldn’t be more true in this scenario.

2). You can’t compare a coach changing his philosophy to a player changing his talent lol. One is controllable the other is not.

3). Who’s to say Rivera can’t change? Belichek was 41-55 in his first six seasons as a head coach (in the regular season) with more than capable quarterbacks in Kosar, Testaverde, and Bledsoe. It took him seven years to win a Super Bowl (Rivera is in his eighth year).

This argument is akin to the Browns giving up on Belichek except for the fact that Rivera had success in his first six seasons as a head coach.

[MillionDollarCam]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You know, he has indeed taken us to a Super Bowl (where we performed well). He's taken us to the playoffs in other years as well. The team respects him and plays hard for him, and even his bad seasons are generally at least in the 7-9 range.

I mean sure, he can be overly conservative and he does tend to favor veterans. But if we're being honest, some of his problems likely do come down to bad player and bad assistant coach choices. And realistically, it might not be easy to find a good replacement.

I'm convinced.

We should hang on to John Fox. 

This is a HORRIBLE take, especially for you. I don’t agree with you all the time but you usually make good arguments, this isn’t one of them.

Fox took the Panthers to playoffs three times in nine years. Rivera has already taken the Panthers to the playoffs four times in seven years and is on pace for five in eight with a real shot at the Super Bowl.

[Fox007]

10 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

This argument is akin to the Browns giving up on Belichek except for the fact that Rivera had success in his first six seasons as a head coach.

That situation is actually way different. If you really know football you know that the team that Belichick built there actually went on to win the SB. That team is called the Ravens.

6 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

This is a HORRIBLE take, especially for you. I don’t agree with you all the time but you usually make good arguments, this isn’t one of them.

Fox took the Panthers to playoffs three times in nine years. Rivera has already taken the Panthers to the playoffs four times in seven years and is on pace for five in eight with a real shot at the Super Bowl.

Dufuq are you on. It's spot on.

John Fox took the Panthers to the SB in his SECOND season as panthers HC and another NFCC game in his 4th....

Also I'm not sure you 'take' a 7-8-1 team anywhere and try to act like that is something. But regardless the point is slipping past you but you nearly grabbed it.

John Fox was here too long regardless of what he did earlier, and he had peaked and you'll always get the same from him no more.

[MillionDollarCam]

6 minutes ago, Fox007 said:

That situation is actually way different. If you really know football you know that the team that Belichick built there actually went on to win the SB. That team is called the Ravens.

Dufuq are you on. It's spot on.

John Fox took the Panthers to the SB in his SECOND season as panthers HC and another NFCC game in his 4th....

Also I'm not sure you 'take' a 7-8-1 team anywhere and try to act like that is something. But regardless the point is slipping past you but you nearly grabbed it.

John Fox was here too long regardless of what he did earlier, and he had peaked and you'll always get the same from him no more.

So if a new coach comes in and takes this team to the Super Bowl then it’s Rivera’s Super Bowl because he helped build it with Cam, Luke, etc.... got it.

The Panthers missed the playoffs four out of the last five years Fox was here. The Panthers have been to the playoffs four out of the past five years under Rivera.

The situations are not even remoteky the same. If anything Fox compares more to someone like Gruden. Early success followed by struggles. Rivera struggled early and followed it up with success.

[Mr. Scot]

20 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

This is a HORRIBLE take, especially for you. I don’t agree with you all the time but you usually make good arguments, this isn’t one of them.

Fox took the Panthers to playoffs three times in nine years. Rivera has already taken the Panthers to the playoffs four times in seven years and is on pace for five in eight with a real shot at the Super Bowl.

All of Rivera's successful years came with Gettleman in charge (yes, including last year).

Coach/GM tandems are a lot like QB/WR tandems. Sometimes you have to evaluate them together.