So What Is It Going to Take to Get Torrey Smith Off the Field?

[panthers55]

32 minutes ago, Bartin said:

That's just Ron and his coach speak to the media. Two weeks ago he told the media he was very happy with the guys we had at safety while he and Hurney were in the process of signing Eric Reid. I don't read too much into that because he is really never going to call out a player to the media unless it's some kind of exceptional discipline related issue.

Exactly the case. And since Ron doesn't decide who plays how many minutes, then he isn't going to bench someone unless they get in his personal dog house like Norman early in his career. Folks around here seem to want to blame Rivera for everything that goes wrong.

[Navy_football]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

He may be physical as a runner but he doesn't block well and doesn't appear to want to do that. Blocking for receivers is something they have to want to do like Smitty always did. And yeah if you are a physical running team that requires good downfield blocking then that dictates how many times you are on the field especially in running situations. And you sure aren't going to be a starter 

Also with that very logic, Tyreek Hill would not get much playing time if any on this team. 

I hear and understand what you're saying - completely. I haven't watched any film, but have you seen him look like an unwilling blocker? Everything else about his game seems contradictory to that. 

It's pathetic that the Panthers won't get the ball to Moore. He's the type of talent that should get at least 10 touches a game. 

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Also with that very logic, Tyreek Hill would not get much playing time if any on this team. 

I hear and understand what you're saying - completely. I haven't watched any film, but have you seen him look like an unwilling blocker? Everything else about his game seems contradictory to that. 

It's pathetic that the Panthers won't get the ball to Moore. He's the type of talent that should get at least 10 touches a game. 

First of all that isn't great logic since we play a different scheme. Not every team requires their receivers to be great blockers so if one guy on one team plays right away on that team it doesn't mean they would be a starter on another team.  I haven't seen Moore block effectively but have seen him wiff on a few and stand around on another. Hard to get a definitive read on so few opportunities. But I know that Norv wants him out there and if he were the best option he would be out there.  He gets what he earns just like everyone else.

[ChibCU]

14 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

He may be physical as a runner but he doesn't block well and doesn't appear to want to do that. Blocking for receivers is something they have to want to do like Smitty always did. And yeah if you are a physical running team that requires good downfield blocking then that dictates how many times you are on the field especially in running situations. And you sure aren't going to be a starter 

How are you coming up with this assumption? On the panthers55 WR blocking quantifiable scale, where does Torrey Smith land in comparison?

If we need WRs that only have use as a run blocker, just need to throw out TEs each time?

You might be Ron Rivera with this backwards ass thinking.

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, ChibCU said:

How are you coming up with this assumption? On the panthers55 WR blocking quantifiable scale, where does Torrey Smith land in comparison?

If we need WRs that only have use as a run blocker, just need to throw out TEs each time?

You might be Ron Rivera with this backwards ass thinking.

I saw Smith wiff on a few blocks against the Giants as well so honestly I can't endorse many of them besides Funchess and Curtis.  As for being Rivera, I just want to trade paychecks with him for a couple of months.

[Navy_football]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

First of all that isn't great logic since we play a different scheme. Not every team requires their receivers to be great blockers so if one guy on one team plays right away on that team it doesn't mean they would be a starter on another team.  I haven't seen Moore block effectively but have seen him wiff on a few and stand around on another. Hard to get a definitive read on so few opportunities. But I know that Norv wants him out there and if he were the best option he would be out there.  He gets what he earns just like everyone else.

panthers55, I hear what you're saying...

So, if you have an explosive game breaker at receiver that maybe isn't as willing to block as another receiver,  then you go with the other player because his willingness to block fits your scheme? Particularly when the other receiver hasn't done much of anything as a receiver. 

It's 2018, not 1978. A receiver that doesn't make receptions should not be starting. 

You alter your scheme for your dynamic talents. Not limit your dynamic talent because of your scheme. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Navy_football said:

panthers55, I hear what you're saying...

So, if you have an explosive game breaker at receiver that maybe isn't as willing to block as another receiver,  then you go with the other player because his willingness to block fits your scheme? Particularly when the other receiver hasn't done much of anything as a receiver. 

It's 2018, not 1978. A receiver that doesn't make receptions should not be starting. 

You alter your scheme for your dynamic talents. Not limit your dynamic talent because of your scheme. 

It is 2018, but our head coach is still Ron Rivera, and it's his nature to focus more on the run than on explosive passing.

On the plus side, at least we're now going that route with an OC that has a clue what he's doing.

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

panthers55, I hear what you're saying...

So, if you have an explosive game breaker at receiver that maybe isn't as willing to block as another receiver,  then you go with the other player because his willingness to block fits your scheme? Particularly when the other receiver hasn't done much of anything as a receiver. 

It's 2018, not 1978. A receiver that doesn't make receptions should not be starting. 

You alter your scheme for your dynamic talents. Not limit your dynamic talent because of your scheme. 

No you don't get it. You put in the blocker on run type plays and run/ pass options. You put the primary passing guy on plays where you are obviously passing and the receivers blocking skills aren't a big liability. So the guy who is more versatile gets more snaps and the guy with dynamic skills but deficits gets used more as a situational guy. Which is what is happening. As Moore becomes more versatile he gets more snaps. That is offense 2018. Different looks and sets with the most versatile guys getting the most snaps.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

No you don't get it. You put in the blocker on run type plays and run/ pass options. You put the primary passing guy on plays where you are obviously passing and the receivers blocking skills aren't a big liability. 

And in so doing, you tip off the defense as to what they should expect.

[Navy_football]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

It is 2018, but our head coach is still Ron Rivera, and it's his nature to focus more on the run than on explosive passing.

On the plus side, at least we're now going that route with an OC that has a clue what he's doing.

Hard to understand why Rivera would rely on this approach. His best season to date as a head coach was due to explosive downfield passing. Yeah the defense caused a bunch of turnovers, but Cam was launching bombs all over the place in 2015. Why would you not want to recreate that season? I think he does which is why he brought in Torrey, drafted Samuel, CMC and Moore. I just don't get what the team is waiting on. Let these dudes loose. All of them.   

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

And in so doing, you tip off the defense as to what they should expect.

There is always going to be some of that just like telegraphing a run when you put in a jumbo package. The key is lining up in one formation and running passes or runs out of the same formation. Which is why CMC gets so many snaps. I expect Moore will see more snaps as we go and he becomes more of a complete player. Hopefully Norv will self study and avoid being so predictable.

[Navy_football]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

No you don't get it. You put in the blocker on run type plays and run/ pass options. You put the primary passing guy on plays where you are obviously passing and the receivers blocking skills aren't a big liability. So the guy who is more versatile gets more snaps and the guy with dynamic skills but deficits gets used more as a situational guy. Which is what is happening. As Moore becomes more versatile he gets more snaps. That is offense 2018. Different looks and sets with the most versatile guys getting the most snaps.

And then you become predictable. And what if you decided to change the play at the LOS, because the defense stacks the box? Now you're stuck with your playmaker on the sideline watching. 

If your run game is that reliant on WRs blocking downfield, then you're already in trouble. 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Hard to understand why Rivera would rely on this approach. His best season to date as a head coach was due to explosive downfield passing. Yeah the defense caused a bunch of turnovers, but Cam was launching bombs all over the place in 2015. Why would you not want to recreate that season? I think he does which is why he brought in Torrey, drafted Samuel, CMC and Moore. I just don't get what the team is waiting on. Let these dudes loose. All of them.   

Because that's who he is.

I've said it before: The guy who gave that introductory press conference is not the same guy we have coaching now.

[luke nukem]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:27 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

This. None of us want to wish injury on any of our guys, but historically it's been pretty much the only thing that has made Rivera move on from an ineffective vet.

fortunately for us this happens ALOT with the vets who were preforming poorly.