So What Is It Going to Take to Get Torrey Smith Off the Field?

[panthers55]

Same broken Huddle logic. Ron isn't controlling the offensive playing time for receivers or what players are on the field at anyone time in what package. Norv controls that with input by his offensive staff.  So Ron has little to do with Torry's playing time. Little........

So what will it take to replace his minutes? Someone showing up who is better for more than a game or two and can stay healthy on the field. So far neither Moore or Curtis have shown they are better other than in flashes. Samuel seems like a good possibility but he hasn't been consistently healthy since we drafted him.

[Darvinsun]

I would settle for just interchanging the players just to see who is hot and making plays, getting open, drawing coverage.  The same with cj and Cmc playing both at the same time. He may be saving those plays for our division rivals but there is so much we could be doing.

[SOJA]

20 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Well, frankly, you didn't have to be Nostradamus to see that coming, you know.  

I agree

[Cary Kollins]

Moore is absolutely electric and should at minimum be the #2 WR.

Sometimes these coaches overthink the poo out of stuff.

[Trill OG]

Get together a large group of people and go stand outside of BOA and hold up signs demanding Moore and Samuel should be starting.

That will surely get the attention of the Panthers coaching staff. Just be prepared to make the news and ESPN afterwards lol.

*I would actually lead something like this if I stayed close to Charlotte, but I live in Fayetteville so I don't have the time to be committed to something like this.

[Kuhndog94]

38 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So what will it take to replace his minutes? Someone showing up who is better for more than a game or two and can stay healthy on the field. So far neither Moore or Curtis have shown they are better other than in flashes. Samuel seems like a good possibility but he hasn't been consistently healthy since we drafted him.

It's hard to be consistent when you're on and off the field like Moore and Samuel. 

Those flashes they have are a lot more than Torrey has showed us. You know everytime Moore and Samuel get the ball, there is a possibility they could take it the distance. They both have tons of big play potential. 

[Mr. Scot]

I think one of the things that absolutely aggravates the living hell out of people when it comes to these discussions is that if you question Rivera about the quality of a player's performance on the field, he'll often respond by essentially saying "he's a great guy".

That's nice, and I'm certainly not one to discount character, but he's not being paid to be a "great guy". He's being paid to help win football games.

Yes you can do that by being a leader, but a lot of the value of leadership is lost if you're underperforming on the field. Teammates would have run through a wall for Jake Delhomme, but after 2008, it just wasn't there for him anymore. He shouldn't have been starting, no matter how great a guy he was or how much his teammates loved him.

Likewise, Torrey Smith shouldn't be our number two now. He's just not getting it done on the field.

But hey, he's a great guy 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, Kuhndog94 said:

It's hard to be consistent when you're on and off the field like Moore and Samuel. 

Those flashes they have are a lot more than Torrey has showed us. You know everytime Moore and Samuel get the ball, there is a possibility they could take it the distance. They both have tons of big play potential. 

Samuel has played maybe 3 whole games in 11/2 seasons. It hasn't been the OCs keeping off the field. And Moore isn't a good blocker and isn't even a good route runner. Flashes are fine but he isn't fundamentally sound. It is best to bring him along slowly and give him more time as he earns it. And frankly he hasn't in Norv's eyes and I think he has been around enough to know.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think one of the things that absolutely aggravates the living hell out of people when it comes to these discussions is that if you question Rivera about the quality of a player's performance on the field, he'll often respond by essentially saying "he's a great guy".

That's nice, and I'm certainly not one to discount character, but he's not being paid to be a "great guy". He's being paid to help win football games.

Yes you can do that by being a leader, but a lot of the value of leadership is lost if you're underperforming on the field. Teammates would have run through a wall for Jake Delhomme, but after 2008, it just wasn't there for him anymore. He shouldn't have been starting, no matter how great a guy he was or how much his teammates loved him.

Likewise, Torrey Smith shouldn't be our number two now. He's just not getting it done on the field.

But hey, he's a great guy 

All that assumes that Rivera says what he really thinks in interviews and pressers. I would think you have been around enough to know that isn't true. And it assumes Ron controls who plays what minutes on offense and that is Norv's job and his staff not Ron's.

[Bartin]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think one of the things that absolutely aggravates the living hell out of people when it comes to these discussions is that if you question Rivera about the quality of a player's performance on the field, he'll often respond by essentially saying "he's a great guy".

That's nice, and I'm certainly not one to discount character, but he's not being paid to be a "great guy". He's being paid to help win football games.

Yes you can do that by being a leader, but a lot of the value of leadership is lost if you're underperforming on the field. Teammates would have run through a wall for Jake Delhomme, but after 2008, it just wasn't there for him anymore. He shouldn't have been starting, no matter how great a guy he was or how much his teammates loved him.

Likewise, Torrey Smith shouldn't be our number two now. He's just not getting it done on the field.

But hey, he's a great guy 

That's just Ron and his coach speak to the media. Two weeks ago he told the media he was very happy with the guys we had at safety while he and Hurney were in the process of signing Eric Reid. I don't read too much into that because he is really never going to call out a player to the media unless it's some kind of exceptional discipline related issue.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Bartin said:

That's just Ron and his coach speak to the media. Two weeks ago he told the media he was very happy with the guys we had at safety while he and Hurney were in the process of signing Eric Reid. I don't read too much into that because he is really never going to call out a player to the media unless it's some kind of exceptional discipline related issue.

I'd have an easier time believing that if I actually saw him bench the players in question; or say, fire an underperforming OC sooner rather than taking forever.

Rivera's actions don't just speak louder than his words; they reinforce them.

 

[Bartin]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

And it assumes Ron controls who plays what minutes on offense and that is Norv's job and his staff not Ron's.

I've always wondered just how much of that is Ron and how much of it is coordinators and position coaches. Now Ron is the head coach so he ultimately has final say, but I hardly think he is dictating play time for individual position groups especially on offense which isn't his side of the ball. Position coaches are almost always responsible for who is in and who is out during a game. The HC doesn't have time to micromanage that. The OC as well if he wants specific plays and packages out there, but Norv is up in the booth so that's something that is almost certainly dealt with before the game.

It's also not like we have never played a rookie right out of the gate under him either. Kelvin was WR1 from day 1, Donte is starting at CB, CMC didn't necessarily start but got the bulk of the snaps last year, Trai was a game 1 starter and Star and Kawann took over the middle of the DL from the beginning. Of course, there are also plenty of examples where it took an injury to get an underperforming vet out of the game when it was plain as day the guy was playing like crap and the young guy immediately came in and produced, but there are plenty of examples of both.

You'd have to think that if Norv and the WR coach came to Ron and said we want Moore and Samuel playing the majority of the snaps at WR and Torrey on the bench that Ron isn't just going to overrule them because Torrey is a vet.

[Navy_football]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Samuel has played maybe 3 whole games in 11/2 seasons. It hasn't been the OCs keeping off the field. And Moore isn't a good blocker and isn't even a good route runner. Flashes are fine but he isn't fundamentally sound. It is best to bring him along slowly and give him more time as he earns it. And frankly he hasn't in Norv's eyes and I think he has been around enough to know.

I disagree with your statement about Moore's blocking - he's the most physical receiver on the roster. And it ain't even close. 

If you have a dynamic talent then you find ways to get him the ball using what he does well. You don't just decide that he can't get on the field because he doesn't do what you WANT him to do well enough yet. Once again, I feel confident in saying that if the Panthers had drafted Tyreek Hill, he would be on the practice squad or inactive most games. At the very least he would be reserved to return duties only. 

[panthers55]

13 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I disagree with your statement about Moore's blocking - he's the most physical receiver on the roster. And it ain't even close. 

If you have a dynamic talent then you find ways to get him the ball using what he does well. You don't just decide that he can't get on the field because he doesn't do what you WANT him to do well enough yet. Once again, I feel confident in saying that if the Panthers had drafted Tyreek Hill, he would be on the practice squad or inactive most games. At the very least he would be reserved to return duties only. 

He may be physical as a runner but he doesn't block well and doesn't appear to want to do that. Blocking for receivers is something they have to want to do like Smitty always did. And yeah if you are a physical running team that requires good downfield blocking then that dictates how many times you are on the field especially in running situations. And you sure aren't going to be a starter