Could Rip Scherer be part of Jakes problem

[CosmoGirl]

First off, I am not a Jake apologist and and not looking for excuses. I realize that Jake's problems started last year against Arizona. But usually, Jake has a bad game and then bounces back after a game or two. Needless to say, there hasn't been any bounce back this year. And while Jake has never been a great QB, he has always been better than what we are seeing this year. So I got to thinking and am wondering if the new QB coach, Rip Scherer, could be part of the problem.

I looked up his numbers while in Cleveland. In the four years he was the QB coach, they threw 70 TD's to 82 INT's. Of course he didn't have the best talent to start with but still, 70 TDs to 82 INTS! And this was across all four years he was there. In fact, they threw more INTs than TD's in three of his four years. So, could Scherer be part of the problem with Jake this year? His QBs do have a history of being turnover prone.

Again, I am not looking for excuses...just wondering???

I've been saying and wondering the same thing. As was said in the off-season, Rip was working on mechanics. I wonder if by trying to tweak Jake's mechanics if Jake isn't over-thinking when he goes to pass. Think about something you've done a certain way the majority of your life and then suddenly someone's trying to change that.

[ClawOn]

What has been lost is that every D-Coordinator has extensive tape on Delhomme, and his tendencies, while never deceptive, are more obvious than ever. Remember what Sheldon Brown said after the Eagles game?

Add in his deterioration in mechanics and arm strength post-surgery, and you get, necessarily, what we've seen this year.

At least Matt Moore is an unknown quantity, and opposing defenses won't know where the ball is going before it's thrown. That in itself is a good enough reason to play him.

[panthers55]

You need a quarterback coach much like baseball players need batting coaches and pitcing coaches. it isn't trying to change what a quarterback does so much as look at their habits and tendencies and tweek them when they develop problems or issues. Even the best players will change their mechanics if they aren't working. Tiger Woods has remade his golf stroke at least 2 times in his career and surely no one can argue his success year after year.

Rip was working on things like moving in the pocket while keeping your eyes downfield and using all parts of the field, looking one way to bait the safeties and coming back the other direction. Anyone think that Jake could benefit from doing any of those things. I suspect what he is talking about not tweeking is his delivery and release. But the others things Jake needs to keep working on as long as he is still in there.

[CatMan72]

I think it's a combination of Rip's coaching and Jake being totally washed up, with an emphasis on the latter.

[Proudiddy]

People can say Rip didn't have an effect on Jake b/c he's a veteran QB, blah, blah, blah... But, truth is... YES HE HAS. At least to some degree.

Say you've been at your job for 15 years, and they bring in a new boss over your entire company, he comes with new rules and regulations, company policies, etc. There's no doubt that you're good at what you do, one of the 32 best in the country... But, are you telling me that even with your comfort, job security, and reputation in this position you've held for 15 years that you wouldn't feel the need to impress the new boss?

Jake is the kind of guy that wants everyone to like him. He knows that not everyone will, but he strives to have everyone like him. He wants to be highly regarded. So you don't think he's tried to impress Rip by doing what's he's now being coached to do?

Of course it's affected him. Its had to...

Not making excuses for Jake, b/c as you all know, I'm far from a BJDJS... He's sucked ass this year. And he had some rough spots in games throughout his career, but he was always able to rebound from them and do enough for us to win. And as much as people say we weren't able to win a game with him throwing. Go back and look at some tape from early on here. You don't accumulate the number of 4th quarter comebacks he did in a short amount of time without throwing...

That being said, I don't know if it's Rip, mechanics, overthinking, or what... But he's not the same. What is clear, is that some, if not all of his problem is mental. And I think a lot of that has to be put in the lap of Rip.

On the TMI side of things, I shot a basketball with my elbow out my whole life... I've always been able to get to the rim when I wanted, so shooting wasn't my first priority. Well, when I got to college, my coach was all over my jock about getting my elbow in... Now, this coach hadn't played ANYWHERE. He had only coached. I spent the whole season worrying about how to change my shot, when in actuality I shot a very good percentage naturally anyway. So why change it? Because it was unorthodox?

Point is, it f'ed with me the whole season until one of my best friends who played professionally and trained players told me to leave it alone. If you try to come in and change something that someone has had success with their whole life, no matter how long they've done it, it messes with their mind.

No excuses for Jake, but I'm sure it has something to do with it.

[rayzor]

And what do you base that on? His past success? Yeah, we all know Cleavland is known for their QB's.

i, and others, have seen how he works with the QBs and what he does with them and it is fundamentally sound. if the QB is still able to be molded, he can learn some good things about footwork and mechanics. he isn't a bad coach. he would be one that i feel confident could groom a QB into a good one. it's a focus on things that they should be doing.

he was supposed to make jake fundamentally sound but it's too late for that to happen. mccoy never worked on the fundamentals and mechanics. his practices consisted of throwing a ball into a bucket. that was it. jake said that he was getting workouts and going through drills that he hasn't in many years. he was working on fundamentals in ways that he hasn't for most of his professional career. he crafted his own ugly way of doing things and, for the most part, it worked.

in addition to jake losing it, he was forced to think about some things in his performance that he hasn't for the whole time he has been here. he isn't having to concentrate on a whole lot more than the job he is doing. instead of just throwing it, he has to think about how he's throwing it. he had enough trouble making decisions as it was. now he's been distracted by the things that he is supposed to be doing to correct his poor fundamentals.

now about rip coming from cleveland....cleveland's problems have been much more than the QB. they have a culture of suck there. that is all that team can do. since 1989 they have had only 4 winning seasons. there have been only 2 since the NFL let cleveland have the browns back (with 6 different coaches). that is a culture problem.

[rayzor]

Point is, it f'ed with me the whole season until one of my best friends who played professionally and trained players told me to leave it alone. If you try to come in and change something that someone has had success with their whole life, no matter how long they've done it, it messes with their mind.

i have had to deal with the same thing as a musician.

i've been playing bass since '89 and was self taught. i have a pretty unconventional way of playing. i can play as good as anyone but i just do it differently. it works for me. i have been in situations with bands or in the studio where i would be told i should change some things up, altering the way i play. when i tried it, i ended up screwing up more often than not. my performances were awkward and i felt very limited in what i was playing. i just wasn't as good because i wasn't free to just play.

had i gotten some formal training early on, i might be a better player than what i became. of course it might have kept me from exploring things and put me in a box. i don't know.

point is, i know what you are talking about and it makes sense in this situation with jake.

it isn't the only problem but it is one of them. i don't blame the coaches for wanting him to get better, especially after that game in january and them still giving him an extension. i just think that it didn't work and made him worse.

just because it isn't the best thing for jake doesn't mean it's a bad thing for moore and cantwell or the next young QB we get. if you can work on those things early enough, if you can catch the fundamental problems while they are still able to improve their craft, it can be a very good thing.

[goncrazi]

I am surprised that no one has brought up the article posted online at the Observer web-site. (I would link to it, but I'm not sure if it's in the Huddle "Network"...)

Anyway, Scherer says he feels he may be inside Jake's head a little too much. "I thought, ‘Maybe I’ll just try and pull back a little and let him ‘be Jake’ a little more.' ”

Maybe Rip does have a little bit to do with Jake's problems?

[Jangler]

Before Scherer everyone blamed McCoy for Jake not progressing. Is it possible Jake simply has bad mechanics/decision making and no amount of coaching will fix him?

It's everybody's fault. Not Jake! Everybody is making excuses except Jake. Makes you wonder who the real problem is.

[rayzor]

micromanaging form the QB coach is only a part of the problem. micromanaging in the offensive playcalling is another problem.

you say you trust jake? show just how much you trust him and turn him loose. use the hurry up offense all game.

[ChucktownK]

I am surprised that no one has brought up the article posted online at the Observer web-site. (I would link to it, but I'm not sure if it's in the Huddle "Network"...)

Anyway, Scherer says he feels he may be inside Jake's head a little too much. "I thought, ‘Maybe I’ll just try and pull back a little and let him ‘be Jake’ a little more.' ”

Maybe Rip does have a little bit to do with Jake's problems?

No, everyone's just trying to do their part to "make/help" him succeed since for some reason he can't do it on his own. Nobody wants to be the reason for his Jake's suckitude.

[Chaos]

Let's face facts - there isn't a QB coach on the planet that can help Jake. He needs a shrink, and a damn good one. It's like a golfer that gets the shanks and can't get rid of them. The mental aspect of this game has torn him apart beyond recognition. He has had a weak pocket to thrown from all year, and then against Buffalo, he had a great pocket and little to no pressure, yet his throws were still behind guys or a mile over their head. He has inner demons that go far beyond a coach's ability (IMO).

[Urrymonster]

just because it isn't the best thing for jake doesn't mean it's a bad thing for moore and cantwell or the next young QB we get. if you can work on those things early enough, if you can catch the fundamental problems while they are still able to improve their craft, it can be a very good thing.

Just wanted to build on this.

When learning new fundamentals, mechanics or techniques it is easy to go through the progressions during practice when things are slowed down and eventually the process because muscle memory.

The problems arise when you are still grooving those new aspects of your game AND supposed to be playing in a competitive game. You put pressure on yourself to win and end up either having your mind full of what you have been learning, or you start forcing things. The result is almost inevitably a cross between the old and new styles, which gives you, typically the worst of both worlds.

Anyone who has played golf should be able to appreciate this. If you are working on your swing it's easy standing there with your coach, pounding ball after ball, right as he wants you. Then you go for a practice round and take all the time in the world and score your best ever score. Thinking you are ready to take on the world you sign up for the comps and all of a sudden the bad tendencies come back AND your head is full of instructions. Not only does your performance suffer, but you start to doubt your techniques and get caught mid way until you can get back to your coach.

Moore, Cantwell, McCown 'should' benefit from not having to rush the mechanics and fundaments. They can just groove it every day until its second nature and then they should be in a better place to start playing competitively. Simply being allowed to learn and progress the teachings at your own pace ensures that you do not develop bad tendencies because of forcing it.

There is no doubt it my mind that there is simply too much going on in Delhommes head and now he doubts himself to make the throws as well. So does not get the passes away when he should AND he delays due to thinking about what he is doing. Anyone who has come far in sports knows you can't afford to think about technique whilst you are playing. It has to happen instinctively.

[panthers55]

For those who keep ripping Scherer as a quarterback coach, note that he was the major reason that Derek Anderson was a probowl quarterback a few years ago. He definitely knows what he is doing.