Eric Washington/Luke Kuechly vs Mike Shula this week

[Toomers]

35 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Peewee football is nothing like the NFL. Get out of here.

edit: what facts have you provided? At least I backed my argument with quotes.

 Sorry bud, HS and DII. Which is so much better than your resume of Madden and moms basement. 

 The same facts that have been provided since he was hired. He doesn’t call plays, even though he has a title. That’s fact. Proving no team in the NFL trusts him to run an offense. Not even the guy that had to hire him because no self respecting OC would take a job with a team where he doesn’t call plays. 

   Your whole argument is “he’s a part of it”. Because you say so. Nothing else in this world to back it up. Like I said, we struggle on offense...who you blaming? Norv or Scott? Has to be Scott. He helps with the game plan.

[Toomers]

42 minutes ago, beastson said:

So let @Toomers tell it the Giants are paying Shula to do nothing

Thats fuging hilarious, go Gettleman go

  You can answer the same question. We struggle on offense, who you blaming? Norv or Scott Turner? Simple as that.

[Toomers]

50 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

One note here. 90% of what an OC does occurs on Sunday after the game through Saturday. The game plan and working with your offensive staff is the majority of what they do.  Most teams only have 40 or so plays they run on game day that the offense has practiced. What they do on Sunday is important  if they call plays but it isn't the majority or only important aspect of what they do. Just saying .... 

They may spend 90% of their time preparing, but that 10% is the actual game. That’s what an OC gets judged on. Final result. Play-calling has s about when you call something, not what play. I have never seen an asst coach, who wasn’t calling plays, get blamed for offensive struggles. Not in my lifetime. And that’s awhile. 

[Toomers]

46 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Not sure you have an accurate grasp of their system. Shurmur is busy with all of his head coaching duties so like Rivera is here, they have their specialties and can input wherever they want but have to rely on others to do a majority of the heavy lifting. Like he said in the article, he tried not having an OC before and it was a mistake. There are several teams like the Saints, Dallas and the Rams whose head coaches call the plays but it doesn't mean these guys do the majority of the work. Shurmur said he had the same role as Shula when he worked for Kelly in Philly. So he knows how to use Shula and still retain control.

 Yes he does. He makes sure he never calls a play. That’s exactly how you handle Shula. 

  And I understand how staffs work. Next time you put together a game plan for a actual football game, then you can condescend me. 

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

They may spend 90% of their time preparing, but that 10% is the actual game. That’s what an OC gets judged on. Final result. Play-calling has s about when you call something, not what play. I have never seen an asst coach, who wasn’t calling plays, get blamed for offensive struggles. Not in my lifetime. And that’s awhile. 

No doubt game time is when you demonstrate what you have worked on all week and find out if your game plan was successful. And no doubt Shurmur gets the credit or the discredit if the plan doesn't work or the players don't execute. Just like Shurmur also gets the blame if the defense sucks even though he leaves it all up to the DC. That is the good and bad about being a head coach. But that is really a nonsequitur to the issue of whether Shula serves a vital role in doing all of the background work so Shurmur has the freedom to do all of his other duties.  If you separate your dislike for Shula from the role that Shumur says he plays (which is important) it would be easier to find some balance here.

[panthers55]

6 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 Yes he does. He makes sure he never calls a play. That’s exactly how you handle Shula. 

  And I understand how staffs work. Next time you put together a game plan for a actual football game, then you can condescend me. 

Again you are letting your emotions get the best of your reason. You can only speak for your experience not everyone's so the whole I did a game plan so I know more is really not germaine. But to your point I have coached and done a game plan but as someone else pointed out it wasn't at a high level so I am not touting my knowledge as that great or pretending I could do something at a high level.  But unless you know how the Giant's system works you still have little understanding about their system. Unless you think every team has the same setup and does it the same way at which point this discussion is pearls before swine and wasted. 

[Pejorative Miscreant]

Lady’s and gentlemen,

Presenting Mike Shula’s offensive playbook. 

[L-TownCat]

9 hours ago, FugAllY'all said:

Jokes aside, there is a lot of institutional knowledge of the Panthers in the Meadowlands between Shula, Gettleman and J. Stew. Those guys have been around basically every coach and player on our roster that wasn't added this past offseason.

Gettleman has been dealing with illness.

Shula barely has institutional knowledge of breathing.

Stew now on IR.  Mayor or may not still be on sidelines/facilities 

[Toomers]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

No doubt game time is when you demonstrate what you have worked on all week and find out if your game plan was successful. And no doubt Shurmur gets the credit or the discredit if the plan doesn't work or the players don't execute. Just like Shurmur also gets the blame if the defense sucks even though he leaves it all up to the DC. That is the good and bad about being a head coach. But that is really a nonsequitur to the issue of whether Shula serves a vital role in doing all of the background work so Shurmur has the freedom to do all of his other duties.  If you separate your dislike for Shula from the role that Shumur says he plays (which is important) it would be easier to find some balance here.

 

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Again you are letting your emotions get the best of your reason. You can only speak for your experience not everyone's so the whole I did a game plan so I know more is really not germaine. But to your point I have coached and done a game plan but as someone else pointed out it wasn't at a high level so I am not touting my knowledge as that great or pretending I could do something at a high level.  But unless you know how the Giant's system works you still have little understanding about their system. Unless you think every team has the same setup and does it the same way at which point this discussion is pearls before swine and wasted. 

  Again. Blame it on emotions or a dislike for Shula or whatever else you want to blame it on. He doesn’t call plays. That’s a fact. So how is he responsible for anything on the field? And how exactly is that going to be determined? As for my dislike for Shula clouding things, you do realize I am the only one defending him. Everyone is blaming the NYG offense on him. Or thinking we have some easy matchup because of Shula? When he has little to no impact on the game. Nothing more. I’m sorry I’m only stating a fact. Don’t care about Shula at all. 

   You can talk around all the facts you want. But we have, first and foremost.....

He doesn’t call plays

This means there is no tangible way to measure his performance. 

 Which means you can’t praise or bash anything he is doing. 

Do we bash Scott Turner instead of Norv? No one wants to touch that one.

 Did Shula have this same impact when serving the same position under Chud?

 

[PantherGuy]

10 hours ago, firefox1234 said:

This explains why OBJ is not stepping up in my fantasy team....

I'm gonna be a know-it-all for a second and say I specifically stayed away from OBJ and Barkley in my draft knowing Shula was their OC.

[BigSyke]

I read that shula still draws up the plays in the game plan room he just doesn't call them live on gameday from my understanding.

[Pup McBarky]

17 minutes ago, Toomers said:

He doesn’t call plays

This means there is no tangible way to measure his performance. 

He draws up the game plan. Whether he's responsible for adjustments is a good question, but he's responsible for the game plan so that's something that goes with that.

18 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Do we bash Scott Turner instead of Norv? No one wants to touch that one.

I suspect no one wants to touch it because it's nonsense. Scott Turner isn't drawing up game plans. He's a QB coach.

[Toomers]

8 minutes ago, Pup McBarky said:

He draws up the game plan. Whether he's responsible for adjustments is a good question, but he's responsible for the game plan so that's something that goes with that.

I suspect no one wants to touch it because it's nonsense. Scott Turner isn't drawing up game plans. He's a QB coach.

 Like I’ve stated many times, every coach on the offensive staff helps with the game plan. Shula doesn’t sit down, draw up a game plan, then hand it to Shurmer. They all put it together. And no matter what Shula or anyone suggests, good or bad, Shurmer is only call that matters. And as I asked, how are you going to properly evaluate his performance?

  Shula is the Giants OC/QB coach. He helps with game plans for someone else who calls the plays. Scott Turner is the Panthers QB coach. He helps with game plans for someone else to call plays.

[panthers55]

32 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 

  Again. Blame it on emotions or a dislike for Shula or whatever else you want to blame it on. He doesn’t call plays. That’s a fact. So how is he responsible for anything on the field? And how exactly is that going to be determined? As for my dislike for Shula clouding things, you do realize I am the only one defending him. Everyone is blaming the NYG offense on him. Or thinking we have some easy matchup because of Shula? When he has little to no impact on the game. Nothing more. I’m sorry I’m only stating a fact. Don’t care about Shula at all. 

   You can talk around all the facts you want. But we have, first and foremost.....

He doesn’t call plays

This means there is no tangible way to measure his performance. 

 Which means you can’t praise or bash anything he is doing. 

Do we bash Scott Turner instead of Norv? No one wants to touch that one.

 Did Shula have this same impact when serving the same position under Chud?

 

Shula is the offensive coordinator doing essentially what Shurmur did under Chip Kelly. Shurmur says he needs him and he helps develop the game plan during the week, works with the quarterbacks and during the games offers suggestions and play calls situationally.

You think that is worthless and unless he calls the plays it doesn't count. So I will believe the guy doing the job, understanding the system and being in a similar role himself over someone who has no clue about their system who has not coached in the NFL.. So feel free to argue with yourself and your bunny trails like asking about Chud when that was a different role for a different team. But honestly I won't waste more time discussing something with somebody who is in direct disagreement with the guy running their offense which is Shurmur