Rhys Lloyd on his missed tackle

[jramsey4]

I saw that Lloyd was listed on the injury report. If he's inactive on Sunday, will John Kasay kick off?

Please for the love of god, NOOOO!!!

[Urrymonster]

The kick that was returned for a TD didnt make it to the end-zone, which let TB right back into the game. If you are paid to kick touchbacks, then do it and you wont have to worry about making a tackle. Some elite teams can afford to pay a specialist, we cant. Really you just kick-off for christ sakes. If Llyod was not a panther would our record be the same? If he's not trained to tackle, then what the hell does he do at practice? Oh my bad he hurt his ankle.

Oh my God, this place is just falling apart.

It is neigh on impossible to kick a touchback every single kick which a lot of people are demanding. There are several factors that can prevent this.

1. The returner - Teams have been returning against us from as deep as 4 yards into the end zone, so in reality to consistently get a touchback he has to kick an 80 yard kick, deep straight as any movement on that ball will send it out of bounds. Golfers should have an appreciation of this.

2. The conditions - Weather is singularly the most important factor in how far kicks go. Into a headwind? I DONT CARE HE SHOULD KICK TOUCHBACKS EERY TIME. Ice cold conditions? I DONT CARE HE SHOULD KICK TOUCHBACKS EERY TIME. Fact is people just look at the fact that they had returns and automatically assume the kicker is to blame. 70 yards is hard to do consistently, 80 yards, which some demand, is even harder. Now consider how hard it is to kick 80 yards into a head win, on a cold day. That probably translates to a 100 yard+ kick in normal conditions. A touch unrealistic...

3. The Kicker - It is easy to kick a ball 50 yards every time because the technique does not have to be perfect. 70-80 yards? That needs to pretty much be perfect every time. Think of Tiger. Similar concept, but he also fails to strike it perfectly every time as well. If we can forgive on of the greatest ever sportsmen, why can't we forgive Llyod?

4. Instructions - Believe it or not, not all kickoffs are asked to be booted out the endzone. Depending on the cicumstances, some might be asked to try to pen them in, edge it towards the sideline or all sorts of the 'other' styles of kicks. Just because it didn't go all the way throught the field, do not assume it is all on the kicker...

Our coverage teams are genuinely terrible. Consider these facts:

Llyod has the second highest average at 70.3

Llyod has the leagues worst return average of 32.7

So he drops it, on averge, in the endzone every kick. Yet the opposition get beyond the 30 yard line every return. Should he be able to make an open field tackle? He should try, which he did, but it is pretty unrealisitic to expect a kicker to make those stops. By the sidelines is a better possibility, but mid field is just unrealisitic.

He has a league leading 42.1% of kicks recorded for touchbacks and it appears he simply needs the offense to give him more opportunities to kick touchbacks, so he can lead the league in that as well.

Here is the fact.

We simply can't get a better kickoff kicker. He is the best in the NFL. With how bad our coverage units are, we simply HAVE to keep him.

[ClawOn]

Having 3 kickers active game-day is pitiful.

[Miaoww]

Cut him.

[Bobby]

It's not Baker's fault his line is as porous as sand.

Baker has the 4th highest average, and the 26th highest net average. The problem here isn't Baker.

Before you bash having three kickers, think where we'd be without them.

[Urrymonster]

Having 3 kickers active game-day is pitiful.

What would you prefer?

Kasay and his 57.3 yard career average? Giving them the opportunity to start form beyond the 40. Or Baker and his 62.3 career average?

Baker has 10 TBs in 177 attempts, Kasay 92 in 966 but only 16 in 350 since the turn of the century.

Or you could have the best kickoff specialist in the league with his 40 TBs in 118 attempts and a 67.8 career average (68.2 since he started doing it full time)

[Urrymonster]

Cut him.

Just checking to see if you are in fact an idiot?

[Bobby]

Lloyd's kickoff average is first in the league by two yards. He's second to Mare (11) with 9 touchbacks -- Mare has kicked off 28 times, Lloyd 19.

[jramsey4]

It's not Baker's fault his line is as porous as sand.

Baker has the 4th highest average, and the 26th highest net average. The problem here isn't Baker.

Before you bash having three kickers, think where we'd be without them.

I agree our punt blocking is unacceptable but Baker is far from innocent. His delivery is far to long. I have also seen him outkick the coverage on a lot of his kicks. That spells disaster for a ST. Punting is far more then just booting it as deep as you can you have to kick it to match the coverage that is called.

[weyco2000]

Icy conditions? Head winds? He's a kicker not a pilot.

Game1 and 4 at home. (Everyone knows how brutal the conditions are in Charlotte in the fall. Downright frigid!) LOL

Game 2 and 3 in domes. (Damn those air conditoners producing those gail force head winds!) LOL

Game 5 at Tampa. (No one should be asked to kick in those conditions!) LOL

I'm sure the coaching staff is telling him NOT to kick a touchback, and the reason the return game has suffered is because we dont have a roster spot for a decent gunner.

[Panthers128]

rhys lloyd is fine, if we need our kicker to make tackles, we're screwed anyway

steve smith and muhammad though, those guys need to be practicing tackles

[Urrymonster]

Icy conditions? Head winds? He's a kicker not a pilot.

Game1 and 4 at home. (Everyone knows how brutal the conditions are in Charlotte in the fall. Downright frigid!) LOL

Game 2 and 3 in domes. (Damn those air conditoners producing those gail force head winds!) LOL

Game 5 at Tampa. (No one should be asked to kick in those conditions!) LOL

I'm sure the coaching staff is telling him NOT to kick a touchback, and the reason the return game has suffered is because we dont have a roster spot for a decent gunner.

There is no point in even discussing with you. You will not listen to anything, just focus on a couple of small things which you feel will back up your arguement.

Of course you ignored the fact that he leads the league in TB %.

Of course you ignored the fact that his average drops it into the end zone EVERY time

Of course you ignored the fact that teams return it 4-5 yarsd deep, meaning he has to kick it 75+ to guarentee a no return.

Of course you ignored the woeful stats for Baker and Kasay, which would be our alternatives.

Of course you ignored the fact that I said there are several factors and yet you focused on one or two which could be disputed at this part of the season, but not later on in the season. Obviously I can only see far as the immediate Frankly I think that is the main problem for most people. They can only see as far as their nose. Did not hear a peep out of anyone after the Washington game when he kicked 75% of kicks for touchbacks, yet one game means he should be cut. Absolute nonsense.

Of course if you have had a returner fumble a few in prior games, you literally never want to have a free hit at him. Ever. Kick the TB ever time right?

No, you are right though, there is NEVER any wind on a nice day, how stupid of me. Never any cross winds making kickers focus on judging the accuracy first rather than distance. Of course not, it's a nice day after all.

If you thik one solitary gunner will make the difference then I think you might need your head examined. We routinely get walled off, so one guy has to take on the rest of the blockers and then tackle him. Whatever.

Next time actually subjectively read poples posts and take it on board before trying witty come backs with some twatish smug grin on your face. Unknown to you, your posts actually just make you look stupid, not clever.

[Bobby]

Icy conditions? Head winds? He's a kicker not a pilot.

Game1 and 4 at home. (Everyone knows how brutal the conditions are in Charlotte in the fall. Downright frigid!) LOL

Kickoffs 3

Reached End Zone 3

Philadelphia decided to return against our shoddy coverage. Not on Lloyd.

Game 2 and 3 in domes. (Damn those air conditoners producing those gail force head winds!) LOL

Most of his kicks landed in the end zone, they decided to return them.

Game 5 at Tampa. (No one should be asked to kick in those conditions!) LOL

He followed the touchdown -- in which they appeared to deploy an illegal wedge -- with a touchback. Two others hit the end zone which were returned.

He played against Washington too, you know. He had 3 touchbacks on 4 kickoffs, all 4 hit the end zone.

Lloyd's ball-striking has nothing to do with our lousy record, our inability to play football does. It's just fashionable to blame a kicker.

[Mr. Scot]

I'm pretty sure Lloyd wasn't signed for his tackling skills.

As was mentioned elsewhere here, if your special teams has to depend on kickers making tackles more than a few times a year, you have issues. The average kicker's physique is somewhere between John Kasay and Martin Gramatica.