Smitty the Underachiever

[Jangler]

I think Jaws said it best on PTI on monday.

All we do is run typical routes for Smith and hopes he gets open with 3 guys covering him. Why not be creative and motion him into slants and natural picks like most good teams do. Once he gets the ball with nobody on his back he can make magic happen.

It's also sad to see our starting QB try to force him the ball with 3 people on him. That just makes the opposing defense laugh because they are triple teaming him and Jake still looks for him, so they're doing everything right and Delhomme is doing everything wrong.

[monstercat]

Well, Henning found a way to get Smitty open even though everybody claimed that Fox was holding him back. The only exception was that one play off game against Seattle where we didn't have a running game (or a RB for that matter) or a #2WR.

[Mesmer]

Well, Henning found a way to get Smitty open even though everybody claimed that Fox was holding him back. The only exception was that one play off game against Seattle where we didn't have a running game (or a RB for that matter) or a #2WR.

Smith was a better receiver then. Henning's offense here is very similar to Davidson's offense here because they are Fox's offense. Do you really watch the Dolphins play and go "Man, I remember that"? No you don't. Because it's completely different.

Also, if we're getting to the point where Jake needs > 5 seconds of protection in the pocket and a stud #2 receiver, then he's just not a good QB. That much is obvious. Smith is not what he once was, but he's not being doubled every play. Moose is still decent, and the TE platoon has done great. Williams is great out of the backfield.

There's plenty of targets out there, and Jake doesn't see them. He has no sense of the rush, and on top of that Smith has taken a giant step backwards.

[monstercat]

Smith was a better receiver then. Henning's offense here is very similar to Davidson's offense here because they are Fox's offense. Do you really watch the Dolphins play and go "Man, I remember that"? No you don't. Because it's completely different.

Also, if we're getting to the point where Jake needs > 5 seconds of protection in the pocket and a stud #2 receiver, then he's just not a good QB. That much is obvious. Smith is not what he once was, but he's not being doubled every play. Moose is still decent, and the TE platoon has done great. Williams is great out of the backfield.

There's plenty of targets out there, and Jake doesn't see them. He has no sense of the rush, and on top of that Smith has taken a giant step backwards.

Why would Fox even have an "offense" when he's never coached that side of the ball before? Everybody keeps assuming that he's holding every cooridinator back but it's just not true, aside from the fact that he's partial to the running game, which our current OC has abandoned in a couple of games already. I mean, have you seen all those blitzes Meeks has been calling with Fox "holding him back"? Evidently, Dungy was holding him back even more because Meeks never blitzed when he was a Colt.

[Mesmer]

Why would Fox even have an "offense" when he's never coached that side of the ball before? Everybody keeps assuming that he's holding every cooridinator back but it's just not true, aside from the fact that he's partial to the running game, which our current OC has abandoned in a couple of games already. I mean, have you seen all those blitzes Meeks has been calling with Fox "holding him back"? Evidently, Dungy was holding him back even more because Meeks never blitzed when he was a Colt.

Fox obviously knows what he wants on offense and has the coordinator run the offense within his specifications. If you can't see that, then whatever dude. It's pretty much blatantly obvious at this point and I guess Darin Gantt, Pat Y, or Scott Fowler needs to write about it before you finally buy into it. (Hint: Everything they write is written well past the point of being completely obvious)

Meeks' defense has nothing to do with this discussion but for what it's worth, the defense scheming is the same exact situation. Fox clearly wants more of a passive defense that plays more zone and keeps everything in front of them. While the plays may be different and names and labels change, this defense looks mostly the same because they keep safeties deep, rely on the front 4 rush, and don't take too many chances.

For what it's worth, as a sidenote, this team blitzes a lot less in the 2nd half of football games. You don't think Fox's uber conservative personality plays a hand in that?

[cgarsmoker]

I think Jaws said it best on PTI on monday.

All we do is run typical routes for Smith and hopes he gets open with 3 guys covering him. Why not be creative and motion him into slants and natural picks like most good teams do. Once he gets the ball with nobody on his back he can make magic happen.

It's also sad to see our starting QB try to force him the ball with 3 people on him. That just makes the opposing defense laugh because they are triple teaming him and Jake still looks for him, so they're doing everything right and Delhomme is doing everything wrong.

I completely agree with you on this. Andre Johnson gets doubled, Dwayne Bowe get's doubled, Reggie Wayne gets doubled yet somehow the OC finds a way to get them the ball. It is such a waste to have a talented player like Smith and not utilize him like we should. Has our team never heard of putting Smith in motion or changing the formation to get Smith in the match ups that would get him involved. Sheesh! I don't blame him for being upset.

[Mesmer]

Smith isn't even doubled on every play. Half the problem is he isn't even getting open. Please watch the game next time.

Thanks.

[cgarsmoker]

Smith isn't even doubled on every play. Half the problem is he isn't even getting open. Please watch the game next time.

Thanks.

The point of moving him around and changing formations would be to help him get open. Are you saying Smith not getting involved enough is his own fault because he isn't beating single coverage and getting open? Take you own advice and watch the game....if you are watching, then you should pay more attention.

[monstercat]

Fox obviously knows what he wants on offense and has the coordinator run the offense within his specifications. If you can't see that, then whatever dude. It's pretty much blatantly obvious at this point and I guess Darin Gantt, Pat Y, or Scott Fowler needs to write about it before you finally buy into it. (Hint: Everything they write is written well past the point of being completely obvious)

Meeks' defense has nothing to do with this discussion but for what it's worth, the defense scheming is the same exact situation. Fox clearly wants more of a passive defense that plays more zone and keeps everything in front of them. While the plays may be different and names and labels change, this defense looks mostly the same because they keep safeties deep, rely on the front 4 rush, and don't take too many chances.

For what it's worth, as a sidenote, this team blitzes a lot less in the 2nd half of football games. You don't think Fox's uber conservative personality plays a hand in that?

Answer me this then. If Fox is uber conservative and is really involved in the offensive play calling in every game, then why have the Panthers abandoned the running game so many times? The Arizona game is a perfect example of this...they stopped running the ball long before that game was out of hand. That is definitely not what John Fox wants to do. He has said from day 1 that he wants to run the ball and stop the run. If you ask me, Fox had more involvement in that last drive against the Bucs (which was a thing of beauty, IMO) than at any other time in any other game this season.

[jramsey4]

Answer me this then. If Fox is uber conservative and is really involved in the offensive play calling in every game, then why have the Panthers abandoned the running game so many times? The Arizona game is a perfect example of this...they stopped running the ball long before that game was out of hand. That is definitely not what John Fox wants to do. He has said from day 1 that he wants to run the ball and stop the run. If you ask me, Fox had more involvement in that last drive against the Bucs (which was a thing of beauty, IMO) than at any other time in any other game this season.

You ever stop to think maybe hes just an idiot? I have thought that for quite some time.

[monstercat]

You ever stop to think maybe hes just an idiot? I have thought that for quite some time.

No, but I do have enough since to realize that Fox is not the OC for the Panthers, and that he got to be a HC by coaching defense.

[Lumps]

I might be wrong but aren't most coaches from defensive coach positions?

[jramsey4]

No, but I do have enough since to realize that Fox is not the OC for the Panthers, and that he got to be a HC by coaching defense.

We have two different OC's and I still see very little difference in playcalling or effectiveness. Sure with two 1st round RB and a offensive line with 2 1st rounders a 2nd and 3rd we did a great job running the ball last year. But it doesn't take a Bill Walsh to come up with that gameplan. But unfortunately that doesn't work against a team that knows how to make even an average D gameplan.

[carolinanimal]

you guys are blaming smitty now. this is nuts, how does he go from being a probowler to under achieving. why do you think that is?