For those of you down on Luke's performance..

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, mikeholiday said:

You don't see Mack dropping into coverage much because that would be a waste of his time. Rushing the passer is the single most valuable thing a defensive player can do. 

I think Ron Rivera might agree with you.  I don't.  You have to have more than just one thing going for a defense to work.

As an example, some pass rushers are lousy in run defense.  We had two of the best sack artists in the league (Greene and Lathon) back in 96 when we faced Green Bay in the championship.  The Packers answer was to run right at them, and it worked.

If you think being able to know ahead of time what an offense is likely isn't valuable, just ask Bill Belichick (or his cameraman).

 

[mikeholiday]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I think Ron Rivera might agree with you.  I don't.  You have to have more than just one thing going for a defense to work.

As an example, some pass rushers are lousy in run defense.  We had two of the best sack artists in the league (Greene and Lathon) back in 96 when we faced Green Bay in the championship.  The Packers answer was to run right at them, and it worked.

If you think being able to know ahead of time what an offense is likely isn't valuable, just ask Bill Belichick (or his cameraman).

 

The things that Luke does on the field are inherently less valuable than those Mack does.

The‎re is a reason Luke is the best inside linebacker in the league and makes $12,360,313. A comparable DE (Von, Mack) makes 20+ easily. 

In 2018, the average salary for an inside linebacker is $2,076,815. That for defensive ends is $3,210,732.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, mikeholiday said:

The things that Luke does on the field are inherently less valuable than those Mack does.

The‎re is a reason Luke is the best inside linebacker in the league and makes $12,360,313. A comparable DE (Von, Mack) makes 20+ easily. 

In 2018, the average salary for an inside linebacker is $2,076,815. That for defensive ends is $3,210,732.

if you think what Luke does isn't valuable, take him out of our defense and see what happens.

[mikeholiday]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

if you think what Luke does isn't valuable, take him out of our defense and see what happens.

Saying something has less value does not imply that it is lacking in value.

But as indicated by the comparison in salaries, the market has spoken quite clearly on the matter. Khalil Mack makes nearly twice as much as Luke does. 

[ChibCU]

But, but, but... you can't make excuses for a white player unless you are a racist. Careful, Igo... football players read this forum.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, mikeholiday said:

Saying something has less value does not imply that it is lacking in value.

But as indicated by the comparison in salaries, the market has spoken quite clearly on the matter. Khalil Mack makes nearly twice as much as Luke does. 

I don't use salaries to answer football questions.

Lemme put it to you another way: How do you neutralize a pass rusher? Most commonly, if you don't have a tackle that can handle him one-on-one, you commit an extra blocker or you scheme the play away from him.

Give me a strategy to neutralize an opponent being able to predict what you're going to do.

[steven8989]

55 minutes ago, mikeholiday said:

The things that Luke does on the field are inherently less valuable than those Mack does.

The‎re is a reason Luke is the best inside linebacker in the league and makes $12,360,313. A comparable DE (Von, Mack) makes 20+ easily. 

In 2018, the average salary for an inside linebacker is $2,076,815. That for defensive ends is $3,210,732.

So he had 10.5 sacks last year. Peppers plays way less and is like almost 40 but had more sacks. Your not really making a great point, look pretty stupid to me.

[mikeholiday]

1 hour ago, steven8989 said:

So he had 10.5 sacks last year. Peppers plays way less and is like almost 40 but had more sacks. Your not really making a great point, look pretty stupid to me.

You're*

[mikeholiday]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't use salaries to answer football questions.

Lemme put it to you another way: How do you neutralize a pass rusher? Most commonly, if you don't have a tackle that can handle him one-on-one, you commit an extra blocker or you scheme the play away from him.

Give me a strategy to neutralize an opponent being able to predict what you're going to do.

Of course looking at salaries is important. It tells me how much the league values a player. To argue against me is to argue against all 32 football teams and their coaching staffs. Who are you to have the gall to do that?

[LinvilleGorge]

Even the all-time greats have an off day occasionally. Even on an "off" day, Luke still had 8 tackles. Even when he's bad for Luke, he's still better than just about anyone else.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, mikeholiday said:

Of course looking at salaries is important. It tells me how much the league values a player. To argue against me is to argue against all 32 football teams and their coaching staffs. Who are you to have the gall to do that?

Someone who knows better than to believe that 32 different organizations and staffs all have the exact same thinking, and that that thinking is the same as mine, or to assume that economics is purely affected by performance factors or nothing else. I also know that "everybody agrees with me" is the kind of appeal you make when you don't have a good answer.

See, the heart of the discussion is the "brain versus brawn" argument. And in all the years that I've watched football, I've seen brains overcome brawn way more frequently than I've seen the reverse. As mentioned before, the Patriots are a prime example of that.

[saints4lifeagain]

14 hours ago, t96 said:

He’s useless against the run.

Lol. Wut? How did nobody call this out yet? 

He was second in the league in run stop percentage for edge defenders who played 50% snaps. He had 40 stops on 357 runs plays. 

[Moo Daeng]

15 hours ago, mjligon said:

Okay then, in that case -tell me more about how great Kuechly is on blitz/rushing the passer?

 

Kuechly is a MLB. Christ almighty the huddle has become a daily stupid competition.

[Mvp2014]

I love Luke but come on...  even with no injury history he isn’t as valuable as a prime elite pass rusher.  Though it’s close bc he’s that good but the injuries......  The Mack’s, Miller’s, and Donald’s make that $20+ mil per year for good reason.  Elite mlb is a luxury, elite DE is a game changer