Tepper to Coaching Staff: Use Modern Analytics

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Moo Daeng said:

This info is on the internet in multiple locations. Just because you got poetic about a quote doesnt change facts. 

We ran on first down at a higher rate than normal. Deal with it. Pay attention to the games. It's right there to see.

I'll make sure I pass that along to Tepper.

(hint: I'm not actually going to that)

[ellis]

Dave Tepper doesn’t need my help, nor did it ever occur to me to offer it. 

Just having a discussion, on a discussion board. 

[ellis]

Are you upset with me? If so, why? 

I’m a fan. Been one for two decades. I’ve seen a lot, as I’m sure all of you have. I come here in peace, and I try to be generally positive, honest and well balanced with my contributions. It’s not journalism, or science—it’s a message board. I get that more than most. 

If you feel I’m defacing some type of coronation for the new owner, by disagreeing with his tact (and politely challenging his statement), then I don’t know what to tell you. Guess that makes me a shitty fan. 

 

 

[TheSpecialJuan]

 

[ellis]

Backing up a little, all I really did here was ask if we really had passed more than usual on first down last week?  With healthy, instructive discussion going here, THE Mr. Scot (message board guy emeritus) storms off the porch to chase me off his lawn. 

Not to be crass, but can you help me understand what type of confidential, inside data he could possibly need to make that general inference? He praised a new look, pass first offense. He didn’t say: “WELL, MAX, I WAS THRILLED TO SEE WE ONLY RAN WEAK RIGHT 21 PERSONNEL 6.9% OF ALL SNAPS.” He gave a high-level, off the cuff observation, and I called bullshit on it, while serving up information to refute it. 

Is that not fair? Do I just need to accept his word as gospel (even though it’s simply a flawed statement)?? I guess that’s what you’re getting at: YOU’RE NOT IN THE BUILDING!! TRUST THE MAN WHO JUST ENTERED THE BUILDING WHILE HE UNDERMINES THE OTHER MAN WHO’S BEEN (WINNING) IN THE BUILDING (.650) SINCE 2013!!! DO THAT, AND BE A FAN, AND STOP TRYING TO LOOK LIKE SMART!!!

Not to mention how this particular quote by Tepper instantly led to half the Huddle feeling vindicated for taking a nearly decade-long hot dump one of the NFC’s most consistent, respected, and forward-thinking head coaches. (but, y’all got it all figured out about Ron/Marty/Shula/Gettleman, right? Ok. Got it.)

If Dave Tepper is “smart enough to know what he doesn’t know”, then why the hell open up this insanely stupid, pointless can of worms in the first place to a reporter, even if it is a puff piece from the team site?

Like someone said, if this were Jerry Jones, instant torching. 

[Moo Daeng]

I mean all you have to do is look at the nfl.com drive summary. 

2nd qtr was the highest pass to run ratio at 6 to 4

By the drive summary it was by qtr: pass/run 1st down

5/4

6/4

3/5

0/5

 

Mister doesnt want you to think for yourself because it exposes the shallow agenda driven view he pushes. How dare you count?

[ellis]

7 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

I mean all you have to do is look at the nfl.com drive summary. 

2nd qtr was the highest pass to run ratio at 6 to 4

By the drive summary it was by qtr: pass/run 1st down

5/4

6/4

3/5

0/5

 

Mister doesnt want you to think for yourself because it exposes the shallow agenda driven view he pushes. How dare you count?

Not for a second do I believe I have the full picture at my disposal. I do know there’s a wide range of statistical splits and breakdowns readily available to team personnel. Plus, they have a skilled staff to manage such affairs. 

But Dave’s statement was not rooted in such microanalytics. It was a broad diagnosis, one which was easily proven to be (at best) vague and (at worst) wrong.

No, I don’t think he’s a liar. No, I don’t think he’s a bad person. No, I don’t think he’san idiot. Yes, I do believe he may do very well here. Yes, he seems like a good guy. Yes, I’m generally pleased with his overall approach. 

But no, I don’t see any upside in talking about any of this kind of stuff to the media. 

Yes. It can be all of those things. 

[Mr. Scot]

26 minutes ago, je1005 said:

Backing up a little, all I really did here was ask if we really had passed more than usual on first down last week?  With healthy, instructive discussion going here, the legendary Mr. Scot (message board guy emeritus) storms off the porch to chase me off his lawn. 

Not to be crass, but can you help me understand what type of confidential, inside data he could possibly need to make that general inference? He praised a new look, pass first offense. He didn’t say: “WELL, MAX, I WAS THRILLED TO SEE WE ONLY RAN WEAK RIGHT 21 PERSONNEL 6.9% OF ALL SNAPS.” He gave a high-level, off the cuff observation, and I called bullshit on it, while serving up information to refute it. 

Is that not fair? Do I just need to accept his word as gospel (even though it’s simply a flawed statement)?? I guess that’s what you’re getting at: YOU’RE NOT IN THE BUILDING!! TRUST THE MAN WHO JUST ENTERED THE BUILDING WHILE HE UNDERMINES THE OTHER MAN WHO’S BEEN (WINNING) IN THE BUILDING (.650) SINCE 2013!!! DO THAT, AND BE A FAN, AND STOP TRYING TO LOOK LIKE SMART!!!

Not to mention how this particular quote by Tepper instantly led to half the Huddle feeling vindicated for taking a nearly decade-long hot dump one of the NFC’s most consistent, respected, and forward-thinking head coaches. (but, y’all got it all figured out about Ron/Marty/Shula/Gettleman, right? Ok. Got it.)

If he smart enough to know what he doesn’t know, then why open up this insanely stupid, pointless can of worms in the first place to a reporter, even if it is a puff piece from the team site? Like someone said, if this were Jerry Jones, instant torching. 

Dude, what in the world are you going off about here?

I pointed out to you that the owner of the team has better access to information and resources than you do. Is that offensive, for some reason? Heck, even you admitted that.

I can't speak for others, but at no point in this or the other thread have I spoken about getting rid of Rivera. I believe he has flaws, but I'm not on the "dump him" train.

If you're going by what Moo Daeng has said here, don't. He only comes on here to be a dick to people. Outside of that MO, he discusses nothing of any substance. That's why I respond to him accordingly, but didn't speak any such disrespect to you.

Sheesh 

[GRWatcher]

3 hours ago, je1005 said:

Intuitive film study + documentation + situational awareness = analytics.  

It’s not as complex as people who never played would have you believe. 

This sounds like how Kuechly approaches film study. 

There are people who believe their intuition and experience and look to analytics to back them up. Then there are people who rely on analytics first until they gain experience. No one should ever, these days, rely solely on either option.

I did not, from the article, get the feeling that Tepper thinks Rivera, etc does not use analytics and was, therefore, telling him to use it. Tepper seems like a guy who embraces data and is excited with the idea of football + data. Period.

I think everyone is over thinking this. 

[ellis]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Dude, what in the world are you going off about here?

I pointed out to you that the owner of the team has better access to information and resources than you do. Is that offensive, for some reason? Heck, even you admitted that.

I can't speak for others, but at no point in this or the other thread have I spoken about getting rid of Rivera. I believe he has flaws, but I'm not on the "dump him" train.

If you're going by what Moo Daeng has said here, don't. He only comes on here to be a dick to people. Outside of that MO, he discusses nothing of any substance. That's why I respond to him accordingly, but didn't speak any such disrespect to you.

Sheesh 

Internet sleuth?

No, you were being a dick. (And it’s ok, I don’t mind. It’s good fodder for someone who can’t sleep. But let’s not play the SHEESH card, bro.) 

You think Rivera is a solid coach? Good on you.  I agree. He is solid. And he has flaws. And no, I didn’t mean to lump you in with those who call for his head on a weekly basis. If that’s how you took it, I’m sorry about that.

You’ll never find anyone who gets less offended by words than me.  I got a kick out of your take, but I’m also not gonna sit back and get stomped on while I’m the only one in this thread providing data. 

[ellis]

15 minutes ago, GRWatcher said:

This sounds like how Kuechly approaches film study. 

There are people who believe their intuition and experience and look to analytics to back them up. Then there are people who rely on analytics first until they gain experience. No one should ever, these days, rely solely on either option.

I did not, from the article, get the feeling that Tepper thinks Rivera, etc does not use analytics and was, therefore, telling him to use it. Tepper seems like a guy who embraces data and is excited with the idea of football + data. Period.

I think everyone is over thinking this. 

Yeah, I’m probably giving it a little too much analysis. And I agree with a lot of your points here. Of course it’s all about balance. 

I just found it funny that some here are saying Tepper wasn’t trying to undermine Rivera....then, using Tepper’s words to advance this clearly flawed “Ya see!! Ron isn’t analytical enough!!” narrative. 

[iamhubby1]

25 minutes ago, Moo Daeng said:

I mean all you have to do is look at the nfl.com drive summary. 

2nd qtr was the highest pass to run ratio at 6 to 4

By the drive summary it was by qtr: pass/run 1st down

5/4

6/4

3/5

0/5

 

Mister doesnt want you to think for yourself because it exposes the shallow agenda driven view he pushes. How dare you count?

 

    The quote was for the 1st half of last weeks game. And by your info we threw the ball 11 times, and ran it 8. That appears to be close to 60/40 pass to run ratio. Which backs what Tepper was talking about throwing it more on 1st down.

 

    We are not talking about entire games. We are talking about the first half of last weeks game.

[GRWatcher]

4 minutes ago, je1005 said:

Yeah, I’m probably giving a little too much analysis. And I agree with a lot of your points here. 

I just found it funny that some here are saying Tepper wasn’t trying to undermine Rivera, while framing his quote to fit the clearly flawed “Ya see!! Ron isn’t analytical enough!!” narrative. 

lol We now have a very good example of how David Tepper will be approaching interviews and answering questions. That is what we gained from this. He doesn't mumble, he doesn't shout, he pretty much leaves all possibilities open. 

[ellis]

He certainly likes talk to the press. About hot topics. I don’t like it, but who cares. 

Win games.