On Cam Newton's two deep incompletions...

[Darvinsun]

17 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

I think Samuel is good but I think DJ Moore will be our best receiver by mid-season. However, much like Ginn, I dont think of Byrd as a threat to be a complete receiver. He will open up the 8 man boxes however because safeties have to respect his speed. The same could be said for Samuel.

I think an interesting development would be a two right end formation with both Byrd and Samuel out wide and Moore in the slot. With CJ in the backfield, you could either motion one tight end out to pull a guy out of the box to run, and if they dont follow, both Samuel and Byrd have the speed to beat the man and get up to the single high safety. I dont expect that will ever be used but it certainly presents some match-up problems if you force the defense into their base set.

Or 2 rbs Cj and CMC and 1 te, samuel and byrd.

[Lumps]

19 hours ago, Saca312 said:

One thing that Bill Voth likes to bring up is his 'criticisms' on Cam on occasions. Of course, he likes to elude to the fact he's in the right with such comments and berates all the "homers" for believing otherwise.

Now, don't get me wrong. Bill Voth's fantastic as a beat reporter. I just vehemently disagree with some of his stances on Cam Newton.

With that being said, here's a comment he made recently about Cam Newton's deep ball accuracy in reference to the first miss to Funchess:

 

Of course, I have plenty of rebuttals for this. For example, Torrey Smith is actually overrated and can be a liability on occasions deep. It's hard to gain a good rapport with someone who truly needs to refine a few aspects of his route running. Another is simply having plenty of new guys and a new OC and just getting used to them.

But then this comes up:

As Cam Newton slander is against my moral values I have decided to get irrationally internet angry over these tweets and post a long thread explaining why both of these opinions are actually wrong based on how the game of football is played. 

So, without further ado, here's my completely biased opinion on the matter since I am indeed a Cam Newton fan.

Deep Shot #1 - Cam Newton to Funchess incomplete

Surprisingly, this was a play that actually was defended quite well by the commentators. First of all, credit to Troy Aikman for saying something that doesn't downgrade Cam in this instance and tells exactly what happened. Something rare from these commentators. While it's understandable they're trying to be objective and criticizing Cam on occasions, they seem to be leaning towards a non-objective side given some of their weird criticisms of some of his good throws. Even then, this time they got it right.

Anyhow, the play begins with Torrey Smith and Devin Funchess on the left side of Cam Newton. However, what's interesting is where those two end up. Both of them seem to be streaking down the field and essentially keeping in each other's space and running in each others routes. It clearly wasn't part of Norv's blueprint for such to happen. As a result, Devin Funchess is out of position as Cam throws deep, and staggers behind the ball while attempts at tracking it down were futile.

As far as who was a part of the miscommunication, who knows. The likely culprit is Funchess, but just as easily could've been Torrey Smith running the wrong route. Either way, clear that the two of them certainly were not supposed to be where they were and disrupted the timing of Cam. Or, more likely, Cam threw right where Funchess was supposed to go but route confusion got to them.

Troy Aikman said it best when he gave his comments on the play. He stated he expects Norv to chew Funchess out during film session for such a blatant error. As Troy has been under Norv's system before and understands his expectations for perfection with his receivers, such mental errors surely wouldn't slide. 

Since it is week 1, it's to be expected there will be some mistakes with certain routes. After all, Norv Turner is new as an OC and it will be a transition. However, what should not be excused is blaming Cam for WR miscommunication. It's 100% not his fault Devin Funchess ran the wrong route.

This incompletion wasn't a result of anything wrong with Cam's deep accuracy.

Deep Shot #2 - Cam Newton to CMC incomplete

Now this one I'm sure everyone is standing up, pointing, and saying "gotcha!" After all, what it looks like is a pure overthrown ball straight to Christian McCaffrey with no ifs, ands, or buts that any QB should've made.

However, another closer look reveals more to the picture.

First off, here's another throw from Cam Newton earlier in the game.

Sadly, Joe Buck in this one decides to open his big mouth and argue this was a throw "behind Funchess" that "you'd like to see more accurate" while completely ignoring one particular detail.

Notice who's coming straight at Funchess from the middle of the field. That defender is certainly no turtle coming in. He's more likened to a speedy heat-seeking missile aiming straight for poor Devin Funchess' head. Of course, Cam Newton on that particular snap recognizes the danger Funchess could be in and throws his pass a little behind to help him out.

The result? Funchess gets a completion and keeps his head attached to his body. He's able to slow himself down and pivot to make the catch while protecting himself from a massive concussion.

Now, in the case with his incompletion to Christian McCaffrey, notice the safety up top coming right in the window. This safety pretty much comes in like a missile ready to disrupt CMC's out and up. This action helps close off a possible vertical line towards the endzone and forces CMC to angle towards the sideline. The safety's job basically is to force CMC in that direction and close off any opportunity as much as possible.

Now, this particular throw is hard to make. Cam has to attempt to direct CMC towards the sideline so he doesn't throw an interception or cause CMC to get in any harm. The only possible way this play goes well is try a sideline throw and hope CMC makes it in time.

As such, Cam tries to open an opportunity with that throw. Just simple facts that the window was already small and CMC couldn't make it in time to the only place where a play could be made.

Sure, had Cam threw the ball a few milliseconds later, perhaps it would've been a perfect throw and CMC would've caught it. But to expect Cam to time that perfectly and throw it perfectly all the time is asinine. Very few QBs could make that throw while maneuvering the pocket like Cam. 

Today, only Aaron Rodgers could make that throw in that situation. And he's arguably the best QB in the league by far.

It's a small window few QBs could make. While yes, I'm sure @MasterAwesome can't wait to point out "oh but Cam's pass didn't make it despite you admitting there was an opportunity," understand this was to point out how hard of a throw it was to complete, how Cam actually had opened up an opportunity by throwing it in the only playable location, and how it wasn't as wide open as it seemed.

Conclusion

Should Cam Newton's deep ball be a concern? History says he's been one of the best at it. Aside from last year where his arm was recovering from shoulder surgery, he's always been in the top tier in terms of accuracy down the field. As long as he has reliable deep ball targets, he'll hit them in stride and well.

Bill Voth does voice his concerns over seeing Cam's deep ball accuracy in training camp. However, the counterpoint is simply the fact that he's trying to get used to his new receivers. After all, the only familiar name over a multi-year span in the wide receiver room really is Devin Funchess. The rest are either second year/been hurt a lot/completely brand new. It's fair to expect he's using training camp and the such to try and gain rapport with his receivers, and it's hard to blame Cam for missing a few here and there.

However, what shouldn't be happening is using examples of small window throws and wide receiver error as knocks on Cam Newton as if he were supposed to make them. Using those throws from the first game of the year to build a narrative that Cam's inaccurate/an overthrowing quarterback is hardly credible for anyone paying attention. Plus, most quarterbacks such as Tom Brady and even Aaron Rodgers have all had their fair share of overthrows that hardly get called out, yet Cam Newton does constantly due to his high velocity throws.

Overall, none of these two throws should be considered any piece of credible evidence for Cam having a poor deep ball/being inaccurate. 

That is all.

An unnecessarily long ass post going in circles filled with gifs defending Cam’s flaws and declaring everyone else wrong from Saca. How original.

Cam most certainly still has accurate issues. Just accept it as his flaw and realize he makes up for it in other ways.

When you try and defend it to a point where Cam makes no mistakes you lose credibility and people lose interest.

[RoaringRiot]

43 minutes ago, Lumps said:

An unnecessarily long ass post going in circles filled with gifs defending Cam’s flaws and declaring everyone else wrong from Saca. How original.

Cam most certainly still has accurate issues. Just accept it as his flaw and realize he makes up for it in other ways.

When you try and defend it to a point where Cam makes no mistakes you lose credibility and people lose interest.

Yuuuuuuup

[Silent Majority]

Who said Cam makes no mistakes? You people have either NEVER watched another QB or have issues with Cam other than football. Logic leans to the latter.

[tiger7_88]

58 minutes ago, Lumps said:

An unnecessarily long ass post going in circles filled with gifs defending Cam’s flaws and declaring everyone else wrong from Saca. How original.

Cam most certainly still has accurate issues. Just accept it as his flaw and realize he makes up for it in other ways.

When you try and defend it to a point where Cam makes no mistakes you lose credibility and people lose interest.

Lumps gonna be so happy when he can finally get to his ideal days of 6-10 years all the time with his white toast 2nd-rate QB.

[saints4lifeagain]

I'm not rolling with the 1-2 QBs in the NFL make that throw. It's a simple throw to hit. Cam needs to hit it.

[Saca312]

5 minutes ago, saints4lifeagain said:

It's a simple throw to hit. Cam needs to hit it.

Curious how you’d think that throw is simple. All signs point to a damn small window to hit.

[Saca312]

1 hour ago, Lumps said:

An unnecessarily long ass post going in circles filled with gifs defending Cam’s flaws

Not really. I just pointed out two plays from the first game of the week Voth and others are using as evidence that Cam's deep ball is shot. I'm putting in the context to those evaluations and showing why those shouldn't be "gotcha" plays as they lack credibility as clear evidence. 

Going in circles is certainly not what I'm doing. Most people that understand football agree with me, so I'm fine with that. 

1 hour ago, Lumps said:

declaring everyone else wrong from Saca

Well, given how Bill Voth seems to be taking the "victim stance" on his argument as the "enlightened one" when he pointed out the same play Aikman stated was clearly on the WR, I'll go ahead and say I'm just returning what he began.

Anyhow, sure. I'm more than open for debate. I just add in sarcastic smart remarks because this is the internet in 2018 and that is the norm.

1 hour ago, Lumps said:

When you try and defend it to a point where Cam makes no mistakes you lose credibility and people lose interest.

Given that Josh Parcell has been crucified for his anti-Cam takes on WFNZ and the fact most here agree with my points, I'll go with you're in the minority with your history of bias against Cam.

(So...the only not credible here may in fact be yourself)

[saints4lifeagain]

8 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Curious how you’d think that throw is simple. All signs point to a damn small window to hit.

No they don't. The ball sails over his head at the 15. The safety is at the 8 and probably 5-6 yards towards the center of the field as well. Theres a big window there. The LB is burnt. The safety isn't a threat at the ball or the receiver for another 10 yards, at least. 

The Funchess throw was good ball placement. Dude just missed this one. 

[Saca312]

41 minutes ago, RoaringRiot said:

Cam most certainly still has accurate issues. Just accept it as his flaw and realize he makes up for it in other ways.

I mean, all fairness aside a high throw to Funchess on a catch that he probably could've placed better really hard to pick on Cam's accuracy from his performance last Sunday. 

And this time, completion percentage isn't a valid argument either. Having a better OC and less deep shots all around does seem to improve one's completion percentage, as I've said since 2016.

[TheSpecialJuan]

well done man

[RoaringRiot]

2 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

I mean, all fairness aside a high throw to Funchess on a catch that he probably could've placed better really hard to pick on Cam's accuracy from his performance last Sunday. 

And this time, completion percentage isn't a valid argument either. Having a better OC and less deep shots all around does seem to improve one's completion percentage, as I've said since 2016.

How did you quote me for something I didn’t say? That’s impressive 

[Saca312]

4 minutes ago, saints4lifeagain said:

No they don't. The ball sails over his head at the 15. The safety is at the 8 and probably 5-6 yards towards the center of the field as well. Theres a big window there. The LB is burnt. The safety isn't a threat at the ball or the receiver for another 10 yards, at least. 

Note what Cam is doing in the pocket at that time. DE pushing RT into the pocket. Simple reaction is maneuvering away from that in order to prevent the sack. That eats up time, so by the time Cam frees himself from that, he has a small opportunity to throw it.

CMC wasn't open by the time the DE started getting too much push. Have to add that into account as well.

Simply put, defense all around made a great play and closed down the opportunity well. Cam tried to make the most out of the small opportunity given by giving CMC a chance at a sideline throw. 

So yes, only about 1-2 QBs in the league would make it in that situation. Timing would've had to been perfect as well as touch and placement. Cam had the placement fine, but timing was a bit early. Can't fault him much for trying to make something out of nearly nothing.

[Saca312]

Just now, RoaringRiot said:

How did you quote me for something I didn’t say? That’s impressive 

That was meant as a quote from Lumps. Have no idea what happened there.