I would like to talk about this Matt Kalil situation

[Toomers]

19 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

And all of Gettleman's players were a part of a 7-8-1 and 6-10 season... What's your point?

And they were 27-5 in between. Gettleman had another job in 6 months. Hurney has never even been approached by another team despite being out of work for 5 years. But we are giving him credit for a slew of bloated contracts and two top 10 picks. 

[MillionDollarCam]

Just now, electro's horse said:

yeah it's almost like a certain play style dictated from a coach produces highly variable results

This is a very good point and depending on how long we get to hang on to Norv and we may see how important coaching really is in regards to the success of the team rather than just the addition and subtraction of players.

[electro's horse]

Just now, Toomers said:

And they were 25-5 in between. Gettleman had another job in 6 months. Hurney has even been approached by another team despite being out of work for 5 years. But we are giving him credit for a slew of bloated contracts and two top 10 picks. 

Hurney was actually never offered another job. that was a lie from his agent.

[electro's horse]

Just now, MillionDollarCam said:

This is a very good point and depending on how long we get to hang on to Norv and we may see how important coaching really is in regards to the success of the team rather than just the addition and subtraction of players.

I just want to emphasize, and this might be the most important thing i've ever said on this gay dead messageboard, that everything we hate about the panthers has been dictated from jerry richardson. 

every problem with the way they played has come from the top, and ron was more than happy to be the middleman here. that is how jerry wanted his team to play. it was all jerry's fault. 

It would not surprise me in the least if the panthers came out next week looking like the 1999 st louis rams. 

[MillionDollarCam]

Just now, Toomers said:

And they were 25-5 in between. Gettleman had another job in 6 months. Hurney has even been approached by another team despite being out of work for 5 years. But we are giving him credit for a slew of bloated contracts and two top 10 picks. 

Great, I'm glad going 15-1 makes up for two horrible years. We could have gone 10-6 and made the playoffs and made the Super Bowl and the point still remains that the team was highly inconsistent. Don't let the 15-1 record misconstrue that.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, MillionDollarCam said:

This is a very good point and depending on how long we get to hang on to Norv and we may see how important coaching really is in regards to the success of the team rather than just the addition and subtraction of players.

I concur

[MillionDollarCam]

Just now, electro's horse said:

I just want to emphasize, and this might be the most important thing i've ever said on this gay dead messageboard, that everything we hate about the panthers has been dictated from jerry richardson. 

every problem with the way they played has come from the top, and ron was more than happy to be the middleman here. that is how jerry wanted his team to play. it was all jerry's fault. 

It would not surprise me in the least if the panthers came out next week looking like the 1999 st louis rams. 

You will get no argument from me on that. I agree whole heartedly.

I may come off as a Hurney apologist but I lump him in the same boat as DG. Both incredibly inconsistent in cap management and player eval.

My only argument is that Hurney deserves the same pass as DG does if we are going to attribute DG's failures to JR.

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, Seltzer said:

People can knock Hurney and have the right to, but Gettleman letting go of Norman and signing Matt Kalil to that contract are 2 of the worst moves in franchise history, and certainly as egregious as anything Hurney has ever done.

Norman?  No.

Baby Kalil?  Yes, its looking like it (though we can be rid of him after this season).

[Mr. Scot]

26 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

This is a message board, someone can claim to be Marty Hurney in the flesh if they wanted, it doesn't make their opinion or assumption anymore factual than someone like Voth who is actually at BofA every day. 

To this point there is nothing to suggest that DG was forced to sign Kalil. Obviosly Richardson favored certain employees, every boss does, that's not out of the ordinary... it's called corporate America. Nonetheless, If DG wasn't prohibited from canning JR's golden boy (Steve Smith), then it is highly unlikely that he was given an ultimatum to sign Matt Kalil to a $55M contract to appease Ryan.

As for last year's season, humor me, what were the free agent signings and draft picks (outside of McCaffrey) that made an impact... Matt Kalil? The premier players on that 2013 team (Newton, Williams, Stewart, Tolbert, Olsen, Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Hardy, Johnson, Kuechly, and Davis) were Hurney guys. 

As for the winning percentage arguement, Gettleman benefited from an MVP season from Cam, ya know a Hurney guy... But good on Gettleman, he can keep those 6-10 and 7-8-1 seasons and benefit from an inflated winning percentage from a miracle season in 2015 and a shitty division 2014.

I love how we give credit to GM's when outside of general player eval and cap management they have little to no bearing on the future of the team. Rivera deserves the credit for the success and failure of the Panthers as it is his job to develop players. I give credit to DG for identifying some great players for Rivera to work with but Hurney did the same thing at nearly the same level.

The post by electro was a solid post but adding Hurney into the fold and taking a shot at him takes away from the issue. The cap issue created by DG.

I get you live in a world where DG did no wrong but if we're giving passes to him for the Kalil contract because of JR then why doesn't Hurney get the same?

Or should we all just agree to point the blame at JR, which is where it belongs.

That's an awful lot of effort made to avoid question.

Not to mention some pretty lousy reading comprehension when I specifically said that the Kalil contract was Gettleman's fault and a disaster, so how does that equate to him "doing no wrong" exactly? That's either lousy understanding or an obvious attempt at defection (you lose either way).

Wanna credit Rivera? Cool. What's his record working with Hurney compared to his record working with Gettleman?

You've got nothing to stand on, dude.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Great, I'm glad going 15-1 makes up for two horrible years. We could have gone 10-6 and made the playoffs and made the Super Bowl and the point still remains that the team was highly inconsistent. Don't let the 15-1 record misconstrue that.

  We could have continued the “consistent” losing every year that was happening for 4 years prior. Would that kind of “consistency” be preferred? I know the protocol is to ignore one of the best regular seasons in league history to make this a close race, but that’s not how reality works. Everything counts. Once again, when does Hurney officially start getting credit? 2023? Are these next 5 years the Gettleman era? Y’all should print up a rule book or manifesto so we can keep up. 

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

Gettleman sure was eager to get Shula to follow him up to New York. Don't think for a second he had no input on that hire.

If you and a turnip took an IQ test, I'd give it better than zero odds that the turnip would have a chance to outscore you.

[Toomers]

11 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Hurney was actually never offered another job. that was a lie from his agent.

I forgot the word “never”....fixed

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Toomers said:

I forgot the word “never”....fixed

That's kind of an important word 

[MillionDollarCam]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's an awful lot of effort made to avoid question.

Not to mention some pretty lousy reading comprehension when I specifically said that the Kalil contract was Gettleman's fault and a disaster, so how does that equate to him "doing no wrong" exactly?

Wanna credit Rivera? Cool. What's his record working with Hurney compared to his record working with Gettleman?

You've got nothing to stand on, dude.

You made a lot of noise without providing anything of substance.

I know it pains you to attribute anything negative with DG, I rarely post but I see the nonsense you spew all the time and try to camouflage it as facts.

Tell me how consistent the Panthers were with DG and Rivera running the ship. In fact they damn near sunk the thing with that 6-10 season. Keep clutching that 15-1 season tight to your chest like it's your firstborn because without it Gettleman was an average GM with as many Super Bowl's as Hurney.