I would like to talk about this Matt Kalil situation

[electro's horse]

14 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Which part of what was said was inaccurate? Not a single line could be misconstured as "alternative facts". In fact, most of yours and electros hypotheses on DG being held hostage by JR in regards to the Kalil deal have no basis or support, they are simply assumptions.

Hold on, I never said JR made them get Matt. I'm sure Ryan had some input, but with one other exception, he was the best option on the market.

On one hand, you don't offer him that contract. on the other, that was what the market was dictating. And there were reasons to expect him to bounce back. Kalil was a failure of the scouting and coaching staff, the general manager, and Ryan Kalil lobbying for him. there are ways to sign him that don't end up with this albatross contract, but we don't know if another team was willing to offer something better. 

Now, once he was here, and once he was shown to be damaged goods? that was VERY much kalil lobbying richardson to keep him on. 

They would have never let DG trade him and a pick to Cleveland for cap relief ala Osweiller in houston. That just wasn't how they did business. 

[electro's horse]

And there was also a rumor that Ryan was going to play for the vet min, and they were kind of...paying both at the same time with one contract cough cough cough

that appears to be wishful thinking at this point

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

And there was also a rumor that Ryan was going to play for the vet min, and they were kind of...paying both at the same time with one contract cough cough cough

that appears to be wishful thinking at this point

I don't remember hearing that but it wouldn't surprise me.

We've had weirder rumors.

[trueblade]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Unless you can convince me that winning games was somehow less important than subjective draft evaluations, you haven't got a leg to stand on.

But by all means, try and convince me: Show me what matters more than winning, if you can.

I will put forth the idea that many of the Ws you attribute to Gettleman were games won with significant contributions from players acquired by Hurney. So it's hard for me to take the win loss record and put it solely on the guy in the GM chair at kickoff. 

[electro's horse]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't remember hearing that but it wouldn't surprise me.

We've had weirder rumors.

I can't remember if this was actually a rumor or something I thought of and assumed someone smarter than me had already thought of. 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I will put forth the idea that many of the Ws you attribute to Gettleman were games won with significant contributions from players acquired by Hurney. So it's hard for me to take the win loss record and put it solely on the guy in the GM chair at kickoff. 

Then why didn't Hurney win with those guys?

And again, the parallel point also applies to Hurney with Seifert's players, and arguably more so given he only fielded one winning roster after those first few years.

Also have to factor in that with Gettleman, we were typically picking later in the round.  Hurney wound up with a decent number of high picks because the sh--ty roster he fielded the year before yielded a losing season (including one that was the worst in the league).

It's a lot easier to get a great player when you have a top ten pick.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

I can't remember if this was actually a rumor or something I thought of and assumed someone smarter than me had already thought of. 

Don't know. Sounds feasible though.

Lord knows we've had some crazy theories on here. 

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Then why didn't Hurney win with those guys?

And again, the parallel point also applies to Hurney with Seifert's players, and arguably more so given he only fielded one winning roster after those first few years.

Also have to factor in that with Gettleman, we were typically picking later in the round.  Hurney wound up with a decent number of high picks because the sh--ty roster he fielded the year before yielded a losing season (including one that was the worst in the league).

honestly it came down to gettleman striking gold at DT in his first draft and shoring up a position that Hurney could never figure out. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, electro's horse said:

honestly it came down to gettleman striking gold at DT in his first draft and shoring up a position that Hurney could never figure out. 

Agreed that was a big deal.

I've never seen a single GM be perfect.  Heck, even guys like Ozzie Newsome and Bill Belichick have pulled moves that left people going "WTF".

That's why the details are secondary to me.  All that really matters is do we win more games or fewer.

[The Natural]

The bottom line is we've never had consecutive winning seasons. So obviously none of our previous GM's have been good enough. Hurney 2.0 has done great so far, hopefully that trend continues. 

[electro's horse]

1 minute ago, The Natural said:

The bottom line is we've never had consecutive winning seasons. So obviously none of our previous GM's have been good enough. Hurney 2.0 has done great so far, hopefully that trend continues. 

i dont know why people care so much about this

one pass goes differently in cincinnati in 2014 and the panthers have 3 straight winning seasons. 

[trueblade]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Then why didn't Hurney win with those guys?

And again, the parallel point also applies to Hurney with Seifert's players, and arguably more so given he only fielded one winning roster after those first few years.

Also have to factor in that with Gettleman, we were typically picking later in the round.  Hurney wound up with a decent number of high picks because the sh--ty roster he fielded the year before yielded a losing season (including one that was the worst in the league).

Maybe because those guys needed the players Gettleman brought in? It's like trying to argue if hydrogen or oxygen is more important to water. It was the team made up of Hurney and Gettleman (and even Seifert) players that won and lost, which makes it difficult for me to accept W/L as a good metric for a GM despite it being the most important stat/metric in the game. 

[electro's horse]

fwiw seifert didn't draft poo in 2001. he was too busy playing golf and tradign for jeff mitchell

[Kevin Greene]

3 hours ago, Lumps said:

Impossible. That means he’d be good and demand money and Panthers don’t pay or really retain olineman.

They do, see Jordan Gross, Ryan Kalil.