I would like to talk about this Matt Kalil situation

[Mr. Scot]

31 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

It's why gettleman is gone.

You mean Kalil and others specifically or just generally not giving a rat's ass what players thought?

[FugAllY'all]

I've never seen so much hate for a guy who actually played ok for most of a season and then got hurt. LIke, is it purely the money? If so, who the fug cares, it's all monopoly money anyway and his contract was structured in a way where it couldn't hurt us after year 2. Yeah, he'll have big dead cap number, but it can be basically amortized over the last three years of the contract and be negligible relative to the cap rising. On the scale of bad contracts, this is barely even a 1.

Paying free agents is always a gamble, if for no other than they get injured and you've suddenly got a significant chunk of your cap in the training room. Gettleman knew this when he inked Kalil, by hedging his bets and drafting Moton, who in his mind would be ready to start by the time they could cut Kalil. Now that timeline has been accelerated by injury and Moton looks like a starter now. 

Is it just because most of you folks only became fans ~2015, and weren't here for all the terrible contracts Hurney inked that completely ruined our franchise for nearly half a decade? Did you forget how Gettleman took over a 7 win roster that was $16 million over the cap with tons of dead money? If this was the worst contract Gettleman had to deal with when he took over , well, actually Hurney probably would have never been fired.

[KB_fan]

Beyond the problem of Matt, his injuries, his poor play and his massive contract is how this nightmare has really tarnished fans' appreciation of Ryan Kalil.  I know at least for me the name Kalil has now become a bad word, and that's a shame. Ryan deserves lots of respect and appreciation. But right now my Kalil brother love is at an all-time low.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

Beyond the problem of Matt, his injuries, his poor play and his massive contract is how this nightmare has really tarnished fans' appreciation of Ryan Kalil.  I know at least for me the name Kalil has now become a bad word, and that's a shame. Ryan deserves lots of respect and appreciation. But right now my Kalil brother love is at an all-time low.

Not denying that, but to be fair a lot of people thought Ryan should have been let go before his cap hit ballooned this year.

Can't really blame that on Matt.

[Toomers]

Jeremy!!!!!!!  

Please pin these numbers so everyone will see the correct numbers on Matt Kalil. I tried to get you to do it last summer but no one would listen. J/K

  This is what we paid to Matt Kalil, cap hit wise, with 25M guaranteed.

2017 3.4M

2018. 6.9M 

Cut after season with 14.7M left to account for.

2019 4.9M

2020 9.8M

 You can’t restructure a player with a 1M base salary that’s guaranteed. 

[trueblade]

3 minutes ago, FugAllY'all said:

 

Is it just because most of you folks only became fans ~2015, and weren't here for all the terrible contracts Hurney inked that completely ruined our franchise for nearly half a decade? Did you forget how Gettleman took over a 7 win roster that was $16 million over the cap with tons of dead money? If this was the worst contract Gettleman had to deal with when he took over , well, actually Hurney probably would have never been fired.

I'm going to assume most of those horrible contracts Hurney gave out were actually Jerry Richardson's doing and Hurney just did what he was told. 

[Toomers]

7 minutes ago, FugAllY'all said:

I've never seen so much hate for a guy who actually played ok for most of a season and then got hurt. LIke, is it purely the money? If so, who the fug cares, it's all monopoly money anyway and his contract was structured in a way where it couldn't hurt us after year 2. Yeah, he'll have big dead cap number, but it can be basically amortized over the last three years of the contract and be negligible relative to the cap rising. On the scale of bad contracts, this is barely even a 1.

Paying free agents is always a gamble, if for no other than they get injured and you've suddenly got a significant chunk of your cap in the training room. Gettleman knew this when he inked Kalil, by hedging his bets and drafting Moton, who in his mind would be ready to start by the time they could cut Kalil. Now that timeline has been accelerated by injury and Moton looks like a starter now. 

Is it just because most of you folks only became fans ~2015, and weren't here for all the terrible contracts Hurney inked that completely ruined our franchise for nearly half a decade? Did you forget how Gettleman took over a 7 win roster that was $16 million over the cap with tons of dead money? If this was the worst contract Gettleman had to deal with when he took over , well, actually Hurney probably would have never been fired.

So eating 14.7M over two years is “not hurting us after year two”?  I stopped reading right there.

[R2-D2]

11 minutes ago, bostonpanther said:

He can only elect to “give back” non-gauranteed annual salary. His signing bonus and other gaurantees will count towards to the cap no matter what.

Nope. I’m phone posting so I can’t pull this up, but he can absolutely give back bonus money to lower his dead money hit. 

A panthers linemen did it a few years ago so he could retire. Drawing a blank right now on the name however. 

[Lumps]

46 minutes ago, Smithers said:

You’ve heard of Jordan Gross, Travelle Wharton, Ryan kalil, Trai Turner, etc right?

Ok, Wharton proves my point not yours but all those are from a different era besides Turner. Was moreso talking about draft picks/actually grooming replacements. Which this FO has miserably failed to do besides Trai.

 

But to the players you’ve pointed out, I’m not sure how good 3-4 olineman in the span of 23 years is anyways...

[falconidae]

28 minutes ago, bostonpanther said:

And how exactly would you make this work? A restructure would mean prolonging the contract, probably for the concession of more gauranteed money up front.  This may free up a little bit of cap in the short term, but would ensure this horrific Kalil contract continues to be an abscess for longer than is needs to be.

Unfortunately, I say we just ride it out over the next 2 years.

Restructures are usually that, what you'd need is a straight pay cut.  If he cut his salary down from 7 mil to vet minimum, would save about 6 mil off the cap, then cut him in 2020.  Could give him playing time incentives [hah] that would allow him to make up the salary.

Only reason he'd do that is because he knew he was just going to get cut otherwise and not make any money at all.  Then, panthers could ride with him on the bench for a year, or IR for his inevitable injury,

That was such a stupid contract.  That's not hindsight, said it at the time. Unfortunately, Cam may pay the price for it.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, falconidae said:

Restructures are usually that, what you'd need is a straight pay cut.  If he cut his salary down from 7 mil to vet minimum, would save about 6 mil off the cap, then cut him in 2020.  Could give him playing time incentives [hah] that would allow him to make up the salary.

Only reason he'd do that is because he knew he was just going to get cut otherwise and not make any money at all.  Then, panthers could ride with him on the bench for a year, or IR for his inevitable injury,

That was such a stupid contract.  That's not hindsight, said it at the time. Unfortunately, Cam may pay the price for it.

  Are you seriously discussing giving him another 7M to stay on the team next year? Because that is not happening. 

[Lumps]

28 minutes ago, FugAllY'all said:

I've never seen so much hate for a guy who actually played ok for most of a season and then got hurt. LIke, is it purely the money? If so, who the fug cares, it's all monopoly money anyway and his contract was structured in a way where it couldn't hurt us after year 2. Yeah, he'll have big dead cap number, but it can be basically amortized over the last three years of the contract and be negligible relative to the cap rising. On the scale of bad contracts, this is barely even a 1.

Paying free agents is always a gamble, if for no other than they get injured and you've suddenly got a significant chunk of your cap in the training room. Gettleman knew this when he inked Kalil, by hedging his bets and drafting Moton, who in his mind would be ready to start by the time they could cut Kalil. Now that timeline has been accelerated by injury and Moton looks like a starter now. 

Is it just because most of you folks only became fans ~2015, and weren't here for all the terrible contracts Hurney inked that completely ruined our franchise for nearly half a decade? Did you forget how Gettleman took over a 7 win roster that was $16 million over the cap with tons of dead money? If this was the worst contract Gettleman had to deal with when he took over , well, actually Hurney probably would have never been fired.

To some point I agree. I for one liked that the FO was at least trying to do better.

The issue now is the FO has to do better. You let an olineman like Norwell walk when you could have paid him MKalil’s money, pretty sure everyone would take that trade. You starting center is overpaid and doing nothing for 3 Years. That leaves you with Turner if you take into account the fact injuries for big men (Williams) usually doesn’t turn out great.

You’re right back to the Chandler/Bell situation. The FO has not learned anything. Incompetence. 

People are upset over the situation and M Kalil’s contact is the biggest issue, everyone saw it coming even when he was signed. The effort was there but competence is not, and is still not.

[Mr. Scot]

Which is worse:

A big cap hit for a guy who plays poorly...

A big cap hit for a guy who doesn't play at all...

[KB_fan]

38 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not denying that, but to be fair a lot of people thought Ryan should have been let go before his cap hit ballooned this year.

Can't really blame that on Matt.

For sure.  Ryan's injuries (and the mysterious nature of them) combined with his big cap hit have not helped his popularity.  I was very much hoping he'd somehow take a team friendly cut this season to help us out.  But I understand, gotta get the money while you can.

I hope his heart is truly in this season and that he will leave everything on the field and go out as a great and beloved team captain and life-long Panther.  But I have to say I'm not super optimistic at the moment.