I would like to talk about this Matt Kalil situation

[TheRed]

4 minutes ago, tondi said:

Hell we could have kept Norwell and be talking about our Oline as a strength right now with Moton at LT.  

That too. Unfortunately there are at least a few glaring weaknesses on this roster that you could choose from over signing Matt Kalil.

If Hurney were responsible for that contract he would be heading straight to the gallows as we speak.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Kelvin Beachum

Russell Okung

That’s 4 options that were available. There was never a reason to talk to Matt Kalil until all those players had signed. And then you still don’t give him 25M guaranteed.

Okung has been a supporter of the anthem protests. That never would have flown under Richardson.

Reiff actually signed in Minnesota a day before Kalil signed here for about 4 million more. He could have been a viable option but he was never anything special at left tackle with the Lions. He was better on the right.

Whitworth was already 33-34. Still able to play? Yeah, but not the kind of young, long term solution the Panthers were looking for. We'd already been doing temporary rentals and it seemed pretty obvious at the time that they wanted to get away from that and find something more permanent.

Beachum I can see as a viable alternative. Reiff? Maybe, but I don't think he's worth that kind of money.

And while I don't think there was necessarily any mandate from Jerry Richard, we all believed at the time that there was lobbying by Ryan Kalil. Gettleman could have chosen not to listen of course, and regardless of who tried to influence him it was ultimately his decision.

So no, the options weren't abundant, but there were a few.

[Devil Doc]

I am no expert.. but it seems like the Kalil brothers planned this. Ryan knew he was retiring soon, and wanted his bro to ride on his coattails. Kinda like the father that hires his son to work for him, when his son is never at work, lazy, and knows he cannot get fired. 

[trueblade]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Okung has been a supporter of the anthem protests. That never would have flown under Richardson.

Reiff actually signed in Minnesota a day before Kalil signed here for about 4 million more. He could have been a viable option but he was never anything special at left tackle with the Lions. He was better on the right.

Whitworth was already 33-34. Still able to play? Yeah, but not the kind of young, long term solution the Panthers were looking for. We'd already been doing temporary rentals and it seemed pretty obvious at the time that they wanted to get away from that and find something more permanent.

Beachum I can see as a viable alternative. Reiff? Maybe, but I don't think he's worth that kind of money.

And while I don't think there was necessarily any mandate from Jerry Richard, we all believed at the time that there was lobbying by Ryan Kalil. Gettleman could have chosen not to listen of course, and regardless of who tried to influence him it was ultimately his decision.

So no, the options weren't abundant, but there were a few.

I don't think its woah-woah crazy to think, given the options available, that Gettlemen anticipated he could resurrect Kalil's career just as he had done with Oher, but it didn't work out.

[Devil Doc]

9 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I don't think its woah-woah crazy to think, given the options available, that Gettlemen anticipated he could resurrect Kalil's career just as he had done with Oher, but it didn't work out.

I think this too.. I wish we had Oher back.. 

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I don't think its woah-woah crazy to think, given the options available, that Gettlemen anticipated he could resurrect Kalil's career just as he had done with Oher, but it didn't work out.

I'd agree, and I don't think anyone doubts that Ryan probably vouched for his health. Obviously, he passed a physical. But here we are.

I mean, there was a time when we went into every season thinking "Okay, Dan Morgan is finally healthy this year." Optimism is great. Unfortunately, sometimes it's misplaced.

[JakeDel5674]

On 9/3/2018 at 4:43 PM, Toomers said:

Wrong and wrong.

The contract literally states we would lose money by cutting him. But, okay. 

[falconidae]

10 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Unfortunately though it looks like 2019 is guaranteed for injury at the time of signing https://overthecap.com/player/matt-kalil/1793/

Depending on what happens with the injury those numbers could be higher but best case that looks like correct.

If it wasn't for the injury they could actually cut him this year and his cap hit would decrease by $750k but his cap hit next year would go up by $1.8m

More times than not when you hear about a player taking a reduced salary it is a restructure and they are just converting salary to signing bonus.  Another scenario would be if they reduce their current salary and the team guarantees some future money.

There are a few cases when players take true pay cut but that is usually when the team has some leverage.  An example of this would be an older, declining player who has a large base salary coming up.  Lets say hypothetical player is due $12m in salary next year but the but the player and his agent know if he is released the market will probably only pay him $4m.  If the team offers him a reduction rom $12m to $6m he might take that because he knows that is the most he will probably get any where.

With Kalil, why would he take $1m in 2019?  He can easily go to another team for $2m.  There is no leverage there for the team.  

Also according to the link above that $7m is guaranteed for injury so its really a moot point right now.

I know what a re-structure is, not talking about that.

If he's healthy- IE, recovered from the knee injury, then the 7 mil isn't guaranteed. You can cut him before the 3rd day of the new league year and not owe him that 7 mil.

Yeah, the one mill was exaggeration. Get him to take a 4 mil pay cut, saves you 4 mil and keeps the 14.7 mil from hitting the cap. He gets more money than he would elsewhere. OR 2 mil, save 2 mil, he still gets 5 mil. Still saves the team money.

Really depends if some desperate team would pay him. Real possibility no one would.

[Toomers]

4 hours ago, JakeDel5674 said:

The contract literally states we would lose money by cutting him. But, okay. 

I’m talking about him being here for two more years and the restructuring being the cause. He will be gone after this year, and nothing Hurney did changed anything about that. We wouldn’t lose money cutting him, we would just have to pay part of it immediately. 

[Toomers]

3 hours ago, falconidae said:

I know what a re-structure is, not talking about that.

If he's healthy- IE, recovered from the knee injury, then the 7 mil isn't guaranteed. You can cut him before the 3rd day of the new league year and not owe him that 7 mil.

Yeah, the one mill was exaggeration. Get him to take a 4 mil pay cut, saves you 4 mil and keeps the 14.7 mil from hitting the cap. He gets more money than he would elsewhere. OR 2 mil, save 2 mil, he still gets 5 mil. Still saves the team money.

Really depends if some desperate team would pay him. Real possibility no one would.

And once again, why would we spend more money to keep him on the team. And still have a 10M cap hit in 2020? You don’t seem to understand that your scenario doesn’t make sense for either the team or Kalil. We are eating 4.9M of his cap hit next year. That’s it. The rest, 9.8M hits in 2020. So why pay a guy anything when the cap hit is already set.  And where are these players that gave back money? I’m still curious about those. 

[falconidae]

2 hours ago, Toomers said:

And once again, why would we spend more money to keep him on the team. And still have a 10M cap hit in 2020? You don’t seem to understand that your scenario doesn’t make sense for either the team or Kalil. We are eating 4.9M of his cap hit next year. That’s it. The rest, 9.8M hits in 2020. So why pay a guy anything when the cap hit is already set.  And where are these players that gave back money? I’m still curious about those. 

Two falcon players did it this year. Vick did it with his Eagles contract. Eagles made about 60 mil in salary disappear.

Panthers do it for cash flow  Because it saves them 4-5 mil off the cap in 19 and keeps them from having a 10 mil dead cap hit in 20. 

Kalil does it because he figures no team will want him. Or he doesn't want to play football anymore and it's one last paycheck.

Will concede it's not likely, my main point here has been that it's possible.

[Toomers]

5 hours ago, falconidae said:

Two falcon players did it this year. Vick did it with his Eagles contract. Eagles made about 60 mil in salary disappear.

Panthers do it for cash flow  Because it saves them 4-5 mil off the cap in 19 and keeps them from having a 10 mil dead cap hit in 20. 

Kalil does it because he figures no team will want him. Or he doesn't want to play football anymore and it's one last paycheck.

Will concede it's not likely, my main point here has been that it's possible.

Show me how it saves us cap space and gives us “cash flow”. That 4.9M is coming off the books no matter what. The only thing signing him to a 3M contract does is increase his cap hit next year to 7.9M. And just spent 3M more that you had absolutely no reason to. Nothing about that 7M is guaranteed, YET, which is why I doubt he sees the field this year. Can’t risk injury. There is not one logical reason to do anything you have proposed. 

[AU-panther]

6 hours ago, falconidae said:

Two falcon players did it this year. Vick did it with his Eagles contract. Eagles made about 60 mil in salary disappear.

Panthers do it for cash flow  Because it saves them 4-5 mil off the cap in 19 and keeps them from having a 10 mil dead cap hit in 20. 

Kalil does it because he figures no team will want him. Or he doesn't want to play football anymore and it's one last paycheck.

Will concede it's not likely, my main point here has been that it's possible.

All you are doing is spreading that 10m out.

Lets look at the cap hits under both scenarios, we can assume June 1st cuts:

2019 release:                                   2019 - $4.9m / 2020 - $9.8m / 2021 - Zero

2019 pay cut with 2020 release:  2019- $8.9m / 2020- $4.9m / 2021 - $4.9m

As you can see all you are doing is spreading that $9.8m over 2020 and 2021.  You would actually lose cap space in 2019,relative to just cutting him, by asking him to take a pay cut.

[rmoneyg35]

I’ve always wondered what he would do as an interior offensive linemen. I think he is too tall to play center but there is a need for a center after this season.

 

maybe he will retire? He has had health issues his entire career which is one reason why I never understood why he was offered such a long contract. This recent injury plus his brother retiring may convince him to retire and save plenty of money.