To Torrey, or not to Torrey

[CarolinaSamurai]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Sorry, five. Not sure why 8 was in my brain

That's alright Jeremy like most guys when you see 5 you say 8. 

[CPcavedweller]

5 hours ago, ncfan said:

No

Curtis Samuel looks to be the best WR on this squad at this time. He gets open, runs great routes, has shown tremendous hands concentration

Funchess is a solid #2 and provides size, and has been here 3 seasons

Wright is a solid #3 slot and mr 3rd down, who is familiar with Norv's offense

Moore- 1st rounder, has show Huge upside in practice where some think he could become the #1 eventually.  He has been slow the last 2 games, but the first preseason he balled out.  And Remember this was Norv's baby for this draft, and Loved this kid

 

And then you have Byrd, who if we cant keep 6 WRs look to be the odd man out.  He has shown solid hands, been with the team a bit so has timing down with Cam.  Shown what he can do when he gets the chance, last year.  And may possibly be our best return guy (IMO looks even better returning punts than Ginn his last 2 seasons here)

 

 

Is Smith's Vet presence Reallllly worth that $$$ that could go to OL depth, backup QB, or secondary help?  Is it worth cutting your best return guy and a decent young WR who has been here for a bit?

Smiths hands,  its just de ja vu with Shepard last year.  

 

 

I like Smith more than when the trade went down because the vet presence at camp.

But the Cons out weigh the pros.  You have to cut weight.  Your not getting rid of a guy like Funchess who has been around the team awhile.  Your cutting a guy who's been here a few months.  A guy who hasnt been around Cam or Norv that long.

Byrd isnt going to be cut.

[Soul Rebel]

In 2018, no. In 2019, yes. 

We have a lot of potential at WR, but not a lot of concrete consistency at WR yet. 

With just over a million left in cap space, I'd rather tweak contracts on players or cut someone like Colin Jones or Adams (signing Reid or another cut safety).

[tiger7_88]

5 hours ago, bobsfoodbasics said:

Torrey is clearly WR5 or WR6 after Moore.

And the whole point is why in the WORLD would you pay $5M to a guy who is your WR5 or WR6?

[Hoenheim]

LOL at all you dudes knee jerking to the pre season and want to cut this dude before he ever plays a regular season game.

We haven't had a deep passing gaming since Ginn left. We have 0 experienced speed WRs on the roster. We had a HUGE problem with WR last year once Byrd and Samuel went down, and after KB was traded. 

You want to axe the only experienced speed WR on the team you are tripping HARD.  Literally no one on the team has emulated his skill set in a regular season game and until we have someone who can prove they can take the top off of a defense, it makes no fuging sense to cut Torrey Smith before the season even starts. 

[Butterflyj30]

We should keep him around like we should have kept Ted Ginn Jr

[Hoenheim]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

Preseason is still preseason 

means, everything on the field is practice.  Opposing defenses aren’t legitimately gameplaning vs our players they are more focused on running there guys through certain plays and being put in certain scenarios. 

We still need a legit dude to lineup outside and take the top off a D.  Come real NFL Sunday we still don’t know Samuel or Moore can pull that off early.  A lot of it isn’t about just having speed.  About dealing with the jams, route running, etc  vs an opponent who has spent all week game planning you. 

We keep Smith.  But nothing needs written in stone in terms of opportunity early.  Play the dudes who make plays.  Whether that is Moore, Samuel, Byrd or Smith 

THANK YOU. Someone that has some actual good logic in this thread.

You cant make decisions just based on potential and what happens in practice games

[tiger7_88]

17 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

You want to axe the only experienced speed WR on the team you are tripping HARD.

If all the Panthers need is a poo WR that can't catch that can run real fast, they can do that for a LOT less than $5M per year.

[JARROD]

2 minutes ago, Hoenheim said:

THANK YOU. Someone that has some actual good logic in this thread.

You cant make decisions just based on potential and what happens in practice games

For real— 

Torrey for one has never been hurt(that I know of) so that means he’s dependable and that’s the most important stat of all.  

Next is what happens in games with real game plans. Right now Norv is vanilla scheming. What happens in season will determine what happens.

we could trade Torrey and have Samuel go down game 1, DJ have a slow learning curve, and then have only Funchess Wright and Byrd until he gets hurt again too.

anyone else that has shown up has been against 3rd string vanilla defenses.

so give it the season to see what happens. What’s all the haters going to say if Torrey catches another tough bomb in the Super Bowl for us? If he drops everything and can’t separate so be it.

 

[JARROD]

11 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

If all the Panthers need is a poo WR that can't catch that can run real fast, they can do that for a LOT less than $5M per year.

Say that again in 6 season games, not after one deep pass in a preseason game.

Torrey really came on in Philly in the playoffs, so we know he’s a pressure player, shows up in big games.

why all the hate? Play for a college you guys all hate or something?

Ginn was garbage when we first signed him— a lot of people threw the same kind of hate his way. 

Hell most of us threw serious hate towards Ginn the first few bombs he dropped, 2 were wide open, no one on him even close, right on target— then he turned into a clutch player for us.

torrey is younger than when we first brought Ginn so we will see.

[Manther]

Depending on the trade, I'd be open to trading Torry for good OL player.  Byrd and Samuel are faster, and Wright is just as fast.  All three have shown something in preseason.  I know its early.  Torry needs to catch balls though for his big contract.  Hopefully he will come regular season.  So far, not impressed.

  

[KB_fan]

In case data is helpful in this debate, I've updated my spreadsheet for snaps, targets, receptions, etc. for the first 3 weeks of preseason.

While I have the data for all players targeted in the passing game (19 in all), I've tried to cut out the noise by limiting this to the top 12 receivers (by number of targets) which is all those who have had 3 or more targets (WRs, TEs, & RBs).  Of these 12, I'd imagine 10 are likely to make the roster, with Frazier and Duke perhaps possible for the PS.

Torrey's data is lousy for sure, but note, he's not eating up a ton of targets either.  He's not taking away a lot of targets from Samuel  or Moore.  

Samuel is balling out....  If he can stay healthy, and if he can continue this kind of production in real games, our coaches WILL play him.

The table below is sorted by TARGETS.  In the right hand columns, the 5 leaders in each category are highlighted in green.  Samuel is the only receiver leading in all categories.  (Note, the totals include 8 players who are not shown.  All had < 3 targets each).

[Pup McBarky]

This thread has been very revealing. For that, I am grateful.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, tiger7_88 said:

1. He shouldn't be.

2. He will be.

3. Ron Rivera... QED.

Norv will make the decision not Rivera. If he starts then Norv wants him to. That old Rivera saw was never true and applies even less now. Saying it over and over doesn't make it so.