Fox may be losing the team

[Mr. Scot]

There are definite signs, on-field and off. here are what I consider the biggest.

On Field Discipline

A general lack of discipline has been seen more than once, but one big issue catches my attention more than others. The one guys who's arguably been more team player than any other has been Jake Delhomme, and Delhomme has been seen getting angry not over players, but over coaching issues (particularly playcalling problems). Yes, these problems trace more directly to Jeff Davidson than John Fox, but Fox is still the guy over it all. As such, ultimate responsibility is his.

Off Field Discussion

This, if I'm being honest, is the biggest red flag for me.

In successive weeks, we've had two players always regarded as team leaders - Jon Beason and Steve Smith - make the kind of comments to the media that Fox has always discouraged. More than discouraged, really. Kris Jenkins bought himself a ticket out of town with such comments.

Ah, but Jenkins was a malcontent. And some would say Smith is too.

Fair enough, but how do you explain Beason?

Logically speaking, players who know their coach shipped a star player out of town at least in part because of public mouth-running should be afraid to engage in such mouth-running themselves for fear of meeting the same fate.

But are they?

Doesn't look that way, does it? :nonod:

Given the fact that the on-field product isn't up to snuff and the fact that guys are more willing these days to shoot their mouths off than before, it's easy to think that Fox's grip on the team isn't what it was. You could conceivably trace back further if you wanted, to the Julius Peppers situation in the offseason. My take was - and still is - that using the franchise tag was the right move. My preference however was to tag and trade. When you have a player openly question the team's coaching and that same player winds up rewarded with big money, you have to believe some people are going to look a tad askew at that. Given what's haooening since, maybe that's what is happening now.

In the end, no we don't really know what's going on in the background. All of this is theory.

But is it sound thory?

Decide for yourself.

[AKPantherFan]

well fox is making his bed, the payers KNOW they are too good to sleep in it.

It doesnt surprise me.

I've noticed Jake pissed off too at the sideline for some of the "problems", lets hope they can get this poo together.

[monstercat]

It's hard to believe they could have come back from 17-2 to beat the Skins if the HC has lost the team. I see players, including Peppers, playing their asses off right now. If anything, I'm beginning to wonder how much confidence the offense has in Davidson's play calling.

[Kevin Greene]

Watch the Charger game tonight? The Bolts first posession in the Red Zone Goal to Go Turner runs LT on second down, pulls him and then runs the same play with a 160lb Sproles. LT and Gates were on the sidleline after they had to kick a field goal with a WTF look on their faces. Fox has sunk to a Norv Turner level with the players I believe.

[bleys]

one thing that I forgot to pay attention to but did catch my eye was the time it took to get a play into Jake. Did notice this once again...

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This is one of those things we can speculate on, and with good reasons as pointed out, but may not know for sure until time passes and we have hindsight to help tell the story. That or it gets so bad that the entire team looks like the 'Skins....

[Udogg]

Disagree totally. I think you are looking for something that's not there. Team is still playing hard even in losses. We have won 2 games in a row. Possibly may be at .500 after horrible start. Wanna see someone losing their team? Look at Jim Zorn. Almost same record but completely different vibe.

[goodlay]

It's hard to believe they could have come back from 17-2 to beat the Skins if the HC has lost the team. I see players, including Peppers, playing their asses off right now. If anything, I'm beginning to wonder how much confidence the offense has in Davidson's play calling.

I see two good games against two very bad teams.

[monstercat]

Disagree totally. I think you are looking for something that's not there. Team is still playing hard even in losses. We have won 2 games in a row. Possibly may be at .500 after horrible start. Wanna see someone losing their team? Look at Jim Zorn. Almost same record but completely different vibe.

Or the Titans. They just plain quit Sunday. I haven't seen any quit at all in any Panthers players. Yeah, Smitty may be upset because he's not getting the ball, but I doubt that has much, if anything, to do with Fox, because he's still blocking his ass off in the run game.

[Udogg]

Oh and from these forums has he lost "some" of the fans. Yes. But I don't think he has lost the team. Reading into what Jake does on the sideline is no indication. Even when we playing well last year there was a lot of motions and gyrations on the sidelines. Steve Smith is usually like that also, the difference is last year he was on his best behavior since the Lucas incident. This year he is not.

[monstercat]

I see two good games against two very bad teams.

What does that have to do with whether they're playing hard or not? I know that you and most Panthers fans just want Fox and Hurney gone no matter what, but that doesn't mean that the players want the same thing.

[Mr. Scot]

Disagree totally. I think you are looking for something that's not there. Team is still playing hard even in losses. We have won 2 games in a row. Possibly may be at .500 after horrible start. Wanna see someone losing their team? Look at Jim Zorn. Almost same record but completely different vibe.

Jim Zorn came into the year with questions and coaches for a team with an impatient half-wit for an owner.

Played hard? Perhaps, but overall we've looked awful. And this even against two of the worst teams in the league.

In the end though, it's still the mouth-running that sets off the alarms in my head more than the on-field stuff.

[monstercat]

Jim Zorn came into the year with questions and coaches for a team with an impatient half-wit for an owner.

Played hard? Perhaps, but overall we've looked awful. And this even against two of the worst teams in the league.

In the end though, it's still the mouth-running that sets off the alarms in my head more than the on-field stuff.

Besides Smitty, who has been mouth running? I saw Jake get mad because the play didn't get in fast enough one time, but that's nothing unusual really. QB's do that all the time.

[Delhommey]

Smitty has complained in the press before about not getting passes, and guys like Lucas and Buckner flapped their gums as well.

Also Jenks was a locker room problem as well as being injury prone. It's not like the only or even biggest problem was never meeting a microphone he didn't like.

I'm not saying I think one way or another, just saying the evidence presented isn't convincing.

[Mr. Scot]

What does that have to do with whether they're playing hard or not? I know that you and most Panthers fans just want Fox and Hurney gone no matter what, but that doesn't mean that the players want the same thing.

I've never been a "Fire Fox" guy. You know that. Nor have I ever been on the "bench Delhomme" train. My profile has always been the cautious optimist.

Regardless, I have always called it as I see it, and that includes this season.

What I see thi season is that we look awful, even against awful teams.

I just can't defend that.