The "Way Too Early" Pre-Training Camp prediction of our 53 man roster thread (Bonus Practice Squad guess too!)

[SetfreexX]

We're not keeping 7 DE's on the roster -

Addison / Peppers / Hall / Horton / Haynes -- Cox Jr & Odaba I believe are still PS eligible, I don't see us benching Haynes a 4th rounder for two UDFA's with PS eligibility. 

With those two off the roster add back CAP to be the back up to CJ, as Barner is the back up to CMC. Then add Colin Jones back at S as he is at the least experienced veteran depth and a ST's mainstay. 

[Bronn]

Quote

So…what next?

Naturally, with the NFL being as money focused as it is, they didn’t want to jump all in. Their player development fingers were soundly and royally burned with the failed NFL Europe experiment. I would assume that limiting the program to only the NFC South will give them an idea as to whether it would work league-wide. That said, we won’t see the full extent of the program’s success until August/September 2018. Y’know, when these players are eligible to be cut.

https://theinsidezone.com/international-player-pathway-program-will-change-nfl

Obviously, this was written at the inception of the IPPP. You'd think you'd be able to find the terms/rules, etc. somewhere in an official NFL capacity, but I've had no luck.

I just remember reading last year, somewhere, and then at least interpreting that the first 4 guys in the program would be active roster eligible this year as well as PS eligible. The differences being that (a) Obada could suit up on real game days this year and (b) that if we stashed him on the PS, some other team could claim him.

If they can claim him, don't they have to promote him to their active roster? If not, what stops us from just claiming him back? Why can't we have him on the active roster if another team would have the ability to?

[Bronn]

16 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

We're not keeping 7 DE's on the roster -

Addison / Peppers / Hall / Horton / Haynes -- Cox Jr & Odaba I believe are still PS eligible, I don't see us benching Haynes a 4th rounder for two UDFA's with PS eligibility. 

With those two off the roster add back CAP to be the back up to CJ, as Barner is the back up to CMC. Then add Colin Jones back at S as he is at the least experienced veteran depth and a ST's mainstay. 

If Obada is eligible to be activated, I think he is. At the very least, we'll take 6. Cox got some good PT last year and I think other teams saw it. We have enough questions at DE depth that we need all the active bodies we can afford to carry.

If we end up taking 6, I think that extra spot could go to CAP as you mentioned, but IIRC that will take about a net of $350,000 off that cap room figure. It'd put us closer to only $1.6M under the cap, which is still decent.

Jones' cap figure is too high. If we kept him in my roster projection, it'd hurt us more than help us. We'd basically be at cap with no room for an extra TE or emergency signing without making some other sort of detrimental move to accompany it.

If we ended up bringing a 4th safety, it'd be Cox, Parms, or some guy that isn't on the team now. Again, we entered last year with only 3 safeties on the 53 man roster.

[Camp Fodder]

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

I think they'll feel safer with Wright more often than not, at least early on, and will want to give Samuel more time to work on his legs. TBQH, though, both will probably be active most weeks with Byrd being the odd man out.

Yep there is no way Wright sits. He didn’t sit on a team that had 2 of the best young receivers in the league. No way he sits here. I think the team realizes we missed that reliable 3rd down target last year

[KB_fan]

1 minute ago, Bronn said:

https://theinsidezone.com/international-player-pathway-program-will-change-nfl

Obviously, this was written at the inception of the IPPP. You'd think you'd be able to find the terms/rules, etc. somewhere in an official NFL capacity, but I've had no luck.

I just remember reading last year, somewhere, and then at least interpreting that the first 4 guys in the program would be active roster eligible this year as well as PS eligible. The differences being that (a) Obada could suit up on real game days this year and (b) that if we stashed him on the PS, some other team could claim him.

If they can claim him, don't they have to promote him to their active roster? If not, what stops us from just claiming him back? Why can't we have him on the active roster if another team would have the ability to?

Yeah, I did some googling too and saw that article and a few others. I think your understanding may be correct, that we could promote him, or we could lose him to another team from the PS.

  If he flashes, that makes for a very tough decision for our coaches. It may be with Hall, Cox and Haynes all also vying for a spot that Obada doesn't get a lot of visibility in camp and preseason if we hope to safely stash him on the PS. But I'm eager to see what he brings!

Hopefully Bill Voth or another team staffer can clarify things.

[Bronn]

1 minute ago, KB_fan said:

Yeah, I did some googling too and saw that article and a few others. I think your understanding may be correct, that we could promote him, or we could lose him to another team from the PS.

  If he flashes, that makes for a very tough decision for our coaches. It may be with Hall, Cox and Haynes all also vying for a spot that Obada doesn't get a lot of visibility in camp and preseason if we hope to safely stash him on the PS. But I'm eager to see what he brings!

Hopefully Bill Voth or another team staffer can clarify things.

The biggest question that has arisen for me, from this discussion, is that:

If my interpretation of the little info that is out there is correct, do we lose the extra PS spot if we 53-man Obada? I would assume so.

Also, what would the purpose of this program be if the guys involved are forced to sit on PSs for more than one season?

I thought the whole idea was to advance their skills enough and adapt them to the speed of the game enough to actually let them play it when it counts...

[KB_fan]

By the way Bronn, thanks for this thread. I may try to work up my own roster projection this evening and post later. But you anticipated something I've been thinking about writing.

Obviously much of our focus in terms of training camp battles will be at LG and the Secondary. Rightly so.

But I'm very intrigued by the battle for RB3 with Fozzy lost for the season.  Like you, I'm giving the early edge to Barner over CAP based on return abilities. But that would sure suck for CAP after 3 years of patiently warming the bench most games behind Stew...

Byrd v Samuel is also going to be an interesting competition, even if both make the roster, who emerges the favorite of the two? Right now, I think it's Samuel if healthy.

Then, Cox v. Hall.  Hall was drafted, but Cox has the edge in experience now.  Hard to call. Probably will keep both in rotation..., But I live the idea of these guys competing hard against each other!

[KB_fan]

7 minutes ago, Bronn said:

If my interpretation of the little info that is out there is correct, do we lose the extra PS spot if we 53-man Obada? I would assume so.

 

yes, I assume so as well. That 11th spot can only be filled by Obada, I believe.

 

 

Also, what would the purpose of this program be if the guys involved are forced to sit on PSs for more than one season?

I thought the whole idea was to advance their skills enough and adapt them to the speed of the game enough to actually let them play it when it counts...

Agree it would seem counterproductive if they are forced to remain on PS.  Based on my reading today, it does seem they can be promoted to 53 or claimed off PS by another team...

 

[Bronn]

2 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

By the way Bronn, thanks for this thread. I may try to work up my own roster projection this evening and post later. But you anticipated something I've been thinking about writing.

Obviously much of our focus in terms of training camp battles will be at LG and the Secondary. Rightly so.

But I'm very intrigued by the battle for RB3 with Fozzy lost for the season.  Like you, I'm giving the early edge to Barner over CAP based on return abilities. But that would sure suck for CAP after 3 years of patiently warming the bench most games behind Stew...

Byrd v Samuel is also going to be an interesting competition, even if both make the roster, who emerges the favorite of the two? Right now, I think it's Samuel if healthy.

Then, Cox v. Hall.  Hall was drafted, but Cox has the edge in experience now.  Hard to call. Probably will keep both in rotation..., But I live the idea of these guys competing hard against each other!

I just feel like CAP would have been more featured and, if we truly thought he was going to be the guy, we wouldn't have brought in Barner in the first place. As it is, over the past three seasons CAPs workload has decreased every year.

It may be that Samuel or someone else might spell McCaffrey in the new offensive scheme, too, which would make Barner more expendable.

But, my hunches currently are that CAP is on his way out (via trade or cut) and that our offense will continue to develop more looks for players like CMC and Barner, while CJ carries the tougher, up-the-gut duties.

[shaqattaq]

Here's my best guess:

Offense - 24

QB (2): Cam, Gilbert

RB (3): CMC, Anderson, Barner (sorry CAP)

FB (1): Armah

WR (6): Funchess, Smith, Moore, Wright, Samuel, Byrd

TE (3): Olsen, Thomas, FA? (How injured is Manhurtz? We go into week 1 with 2 if he looks like he's coming off IR soon)

T (3): Kalil, Williams, Moton

G (4): Turner, Sirles, VanRoten, Silalotu

C (2): Kalil, Larsen, 

Defense - 26

DE (5): Addison, Pep, Horton, Hall, Haynes

DT (4): Poe, KK, Love, Butler

LB (6): Luke, Shaq, TD, Mayo, Norris, Carter

CB (7): Bradberry, Jackson, Seymour, Cockrell, Munnerlyn, Elder, Doss

S (4):Adams, Searcy, Gaulden, Southward (Jones is fighting Doss for #53 on the roster)

PS - 11

Norton	DT
Cox	S
Cox	DE
Parms	S
Hood	RB/FB
Allen	QB
Andre Smith	LB
Bosch	G
Mahon	G
Baylis	TE

[Bronn]

Not Panthers, but related:
 

Quote

Now, thanks to the International Player Pathway Program he has plenty of time. The program picks eight teams and assigns them an international player who comes with a roster exemption. So the Bengals can now have 91 players on the 90-man roster and 11 players on the 10-man practice squad throughout the year as long as it includes Böhringer.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/05/13/uphill-climb-moritz-bohringer-undrafted-free-agents-cincinnati-bengals/604845002/

Bad journalism or more to it? IIRC we couldn't even cut Obada if we wanted to last year, and I thought I've read that the new guys in the program this year can't be cut.

But, this clearly implies that the Bengals could cut Bohringer, and lose their roster exemption.

[Bronn]

7 minutes ago, shaqattaq said:

Here's my best guess:

Not too different from mine, but I think you're over the cap from first look. It could be made to work though, I think.

Only other observations is that Munnerlyn is dead to me and I want him gone, tbqh, and we only get 10 PS guys if Obada isn't one of them, so I am assuming you picked him for PS but didn't list.

[shaqattaq]

2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Not too different from mine, but I think you're over the cap from first look. It could be made to work though, I think.

Only other observations is that Munnerlyn is dead to me and I want him gone, tbqh, and we only get 10 PS guys if Obada isn't one of them, so I am assuming you picked him for PS but didn't list.

Yeah, Obada was supposed to be there as #11. I agree about Munnerlyn, but I think he stays unless Elder completely dominates him during camp.

[Bronn]

lol I found this with my Google-Fu:
 

 

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Moorgan

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Posted September 1, 2017

On 9/1/2017 at 5:24 PM, KB_fan said:

Sorry if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill in regards to Obada .  There's not much else to talk about among these first 13 cuts (Other than Sanchez / Teddy Williams injuries and need for CB).

Obada impressed me a lot.  I hope that by some means or another he does end up as a NORMAL guy on our PS that we can develop for the future and possibly promote.   Am I crazy for hoping this?  Did anyone else like what they saw of him?

So, it sounds like, last year at least, when we cut him, another team could have signed him. We could bring him back, but only on the PS as he was "assigned" to us by the NFL and we didn't acquire him through FA.

From everything I have read, it still seems to me that he can be on our 53 man roster now, or be cut again and see if anyone else wants him, and then, if not, come back to our PS again as an exempt 11th PS player.

Confusing as hell, but I think this is all correct.

That said, I still think we take at least 6 DEs, but maybe even 7.