Is Hurney next to get the boot?

[Moo Daeng]

To answer the question technically, no. There will be others who are replaced on the business side before next year which is the earliest chance for a new GM.

[ladypanther]

8 hours ago, TheMaulClaw said:

The Kaelin Clay trade was a nice touch. So was the Worley release. I thought the Poe signing was great. I think he brought in safety help and Cockrell was a thoughtful signing. The back end of our defense is improved which is ultimately why we lost to NO.

Got to give the offense some credit for that loss too.  I believe that issue has been addressed nicely as well.

[FakePlasticTrees]

A winning season means job retention. A losing season means a lost job.

[Moo Daeng]

42 minutes ago, ladypanther said:

Got to give the offense some credit for that loss too.  I believe that issue has been addressed nicely as well.

I thought they did admirably given the injuries at receiver position.

Injuries are almost always the biggest issue with our bad seasons recently.

[ladypanther]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It has in the offseason, but it was handled poorly in season getting us to that point. I don’t care about KB being traded as a concept but it was a horrible oversight thinking that we had enough depth and that Clay, Bersin and Shepard were a competent group considering Byrd and Samuel had already missed time due to injury and Olsen was on IR. Olsen tweaked his foot the first game back; we were lucky he finished the season healthy. The offense gets some credit but Hurney put us in that spot with the WRs.

I loved Hurney’s offseason with the minor exception of some of the draft picks. I didn’t like trading KB knowing what else we had at the time and it came back to bite us in the ass. 

Better play calling and design would have helped a lot too.

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

That’s a long winded way to say OL issues = Matt Kalil. I never said anything about the offseason overall. I’m very happy aside from some of the draft. Using Sirles as some sort of good replacement when there’ll be probably 6-8 guards from this draft that will be much better than him is funny. I’d say this year’s interior OL depth was comparable to the 2014 WR depth and that worked out well. We will absolutely look back at some guards and even safeties from this draft and be a bit miffed. That said, it’s done and I was just defending your accusation that our OL was in horrible shape and that it was all Gettleman’s fault when he left with an OL of Kalil, Norwell, Kalil, Turner and Williams. Outside of Matt, who I didn’t like, but we needed something, that’s 3 of his draftees who turned out well. I just hope Moton starts at LG because I think he can be solid and then I won’t care about the guards we could have had. If Sirles and Amini start then Hurney effed up the draft by missing out on a bigger impact than Gaulden or even Jackson. 

Well I think that there was way too much bleeding in the defensive backfield to ignore it. We just had to address it (which is a shame considering all the draft capital put into it the previous draft). I also think that we needed to address receiver, regardless of whether Benjamin  was here or not. And, on that note, we rightly kept the younger and more dynamic of the twin towers. But back on point, between the versatile Moton, Sirles, and Williams (and Turner), OG should be fine. I can see where Hurney was going with that when he "skipped" OG in the draft in favor of other positions. Indeed, if we get a decent or better DB out of this draft, I don't think anyone is going to miss missing out on a high quality OG which is arguably much easier to find in the draft and free agency (and probably from among the ranks of UDFAs as well).

[Sasquatch]

Here's a question for the Hurney defenders.

We're currently sitting at roughly $19 million in available cap space for next off season. Sounds like enough BUT, we should  expect $ 3-4 million dead cap hit from cut downs this summer, more if there is a decision to move a Butler, Wright, or Samuels. Then we have to consider next years draft and set aside that rookie pool of another $6 million plus. That will put us at less than $10 million available. 

Now how would you replace R.Kalil, J. Peppers, T. Davis, D Funchess, D.Williams, K. Love, W. Horton, and then of course we'll need more than C. McAfree and Armah for RBs. How do you propose those holes get filled without going right back into the cap hell that we landed in during Hurney's last reign?

 

[top dawg]

19 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Here's a question for the Hurney defenders.

We're currently sitting at roughly $19 million in available cap space for next off season. Sounds like enough BUT, we should  expect $ 3-4 million dead cap hit from cut downs this summer, more if there is a decision to move a Butler, Wright, or Samuels. Then we have to consider next years draft and set aside that rookie pool of another $6 million plus. That will put us at less than $10 million available. 

Now how would you replace R.Kalil, J. Peppers, T. Davis, D Funchess, D.Williams, K. Love, W. Horton, and then of course we'll need more than C. McAfree and Armah for RBs. How do you propose those holes get filled without going right back into the cap hell that we landed in during Hurney's last reign?

 

First off: Why is this question directed toward so called "Hurney defenders?" I don't think that it's a matter of defending Hurney as much as it is judging his work since his return. I think that what has been said about 2.0 (if you will) has been fair. Furthmore, it's more about a wait and see attitude and what's been done on paper. 

Secondly, these questions are going to have to be answered by everyone (who cares). The coming exodus is not really a Hurney thing. It's somewhat about Gettleman, but even more about the natural cycle of attrition that is part of the dynamics of an NFL team.

The draft is obviously an important part of the answer. Being able to identify values in free agency that fit what you're trying to accomplish (like signing a C.J. Anderson or Torrey Smith). And, of course, player development and bringing the next man up will be important as well. I always suspected that Mario Addison and Horton (to a lesser extent) were better than advertised, but just like they took time to come into their own (so to speak), the cupboard isn't exactly bare with Hall, Cox and maybe even Obada. Sure they're largely unknowns, but there is some level of talent there. Moreover, we also have RBs currently on the roster that may surprise as well (in Artis-Payne, Hood and even Bonnafon ). As for Love, he is a nice rotational piece, but let's not act like he isn't replaceable. Butler really needs to be given the opportunity to step it up being that he cost a lot of draft capital, but there is always some veteran value (much like he was) seemingly every year (and the same goes for all the positions). 

Basically, we are just gonna have to look at all the avenues and make some decisions, but it will get done. Sometimes you have to take one step back to move a few steps forward. As long as you keep your eye on the pulse of what's going on, and align your expectations within reality, I don't see it as a huge deal (or at least nothing out of the ordinary).

 

edit: I seemed to have overlooked LB, but that should pretty much speak for itself. Thompson is the presumed heir apparent to TD, and the rookies we have this year don't appear to be dog meat. Smith may be a serious draft day steal. Moreover, I know that some want to sleep on Jared Norris, but the kid was notably good in college. He's had a couple of years to learn how to be a pro (behind the best LB in football).

[panthers55]

On 7/15/2018 at 10:57 AM, stbugs said:

It has in the offseason, but it was handled poorly in season getting us to that point. I don’t care about KB being traded as a concept but it was a horrible oversight thinking that we had enough depth and that Clay, Bersin and Shepard were a competent group considering Byrd and Samuel had already missed time due to injury and Olsen was on IR. Olsen tweaked his foot the first game back; we were lucky he finished the season healthy. The offense gets some credit but Hurney put us in that spot with the WRs.

I loved Hurney’s offseason with the minor exception of some of the draft picks. I didn’t like trading KB knowing what else we had at the time and it came back to bite us in the ass. 

The decision to can Benjamin was not decided until well into the season and at that point Olsen was hurt but neither Byrd and Samuel were injured at that point. And if I remember correctly, it wasn't our idea to trade Benjamin. While Shepard didn't do much, he was still on the roster due to Gettleman's contract and dead cap space wouldn't allow us to eat that loss and still replace him with someone better. Who exactly was out there who was appreciable better than who was here already and we could afford? And how many of those guys would have been plug and  play with no offseason, training camp and half the season gone? At the point a GM looks for depth signings which is before the regular season starts, we didn't know Shepard would suçk or Samuel and Byrd would be hurt when we needed them. Unless he was Nostradamus he couldn't have predicted injuries would occur and that we would need a dozen receivers to make it through the season. Exactly how many receivers can we stash on the roster as backups. No this is hindsight 20-20 logic that isn't relevant at this point.

[Toomers]

29 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The decision to can Benjamin was not decided until well into the season and at that point Olsen was hurt but neither Byrd and Samuel were injured at that point. And if I remember correctly, it wasn't our idea to trade Benjamin. While Shepard didn't do much, he was still on the roster due to Gettleman's contract and dead cap space wouldn't allow us to eat that loss and still replace him with someone better. Who exactly was out there who was appreciable better than who was here already and we could afford? And how many of those guys would have been plug and  play with no offseason, training camp and half the season gone? At the point a GM looks for depth signings which is before the regular season starts, we didn't know Shepard would suçk or Samuel and Byrd would be hurt when we needed them. Unless he was Nostradamus he couldn't have predicted injuries would occur and that we would need a dozen receivers to make it through the season. Exactly how many receivers can we stash on the roster as backups. No this is hindsight 20-20 logic that isn't relevant at this point.

It isn’t 20/20 hindsight when half the board was saying it left us thin at WR. What had Samuel or Byrd ever done to give anyone the confidence they could suddenly be the #2 and #3 WRs? Byrd didn’t even come off IR until week 13.( use some 20/20 eyesight on your facts) That’s four weeks with a open spot to work with. We didn’t have to cut Shepard. Just fill the Bersin-Clay-Frazier spot with at least a Jeremy Kerley type. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

It isn’t 20/20 hindsight when half the board was saying it left us thin at WR. What had Samuel or Byrd ever done to give anyone the confidence they could suddenly be the #2 and #3 WRs? Byrd didn’t even come off IR until week 13.( use some 20/20 eyesight on your facts) That’s four weeks with a open spot to work with. We didn’t have to cut Shepard. Just fill the Bersin-Clay-Frazier spot with at least a Jeremy Kerley type. 

Again are we talking about getting rid of Benjamin on the trade deadline or at the end of preseason when we could actually find some help. Benjamin was released a week after Kerley was signed to a 4 year contract with the Jets. So no there weren't guys like him waiting around to be picked. And if you are going to.pull a name out of your hat make it someone who was available. And honestly I don't see that Kerley would have been a big pickup worth paying 4 or 5 million and doing a long term contract. Until Samuel and Byrd both got hurt our passing game did improve without Benjamin with the guys we had.  So no you are just finding things to bitch about.

[Toomers]

13 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again are we talking about getting rid of Benjamin on the trade deadline or at the end of preseason when we could actually find some help. Benjamin was released a week after Kerley was signed to a 4 year contract with the Jets. So no there weren't guys like him waiting around to be picked. And if you are going to.pull a name out of your hat make it someone who was available. And honestly I don't see that Kerley would have been a big pickup worth paying 4 or 5 million and doing a long term contract. Until Samuel and Byrd both got hurt our passing game did improve without Benjamin with the guys we had.  So no you are just finding things to bitch about.

  If you would read with a little comprehension, you can plainly see I posted Jeremy Kerley TYPE. I didn’t mean him specifically, just that he was a player that was available at the end of the year after he was cut in week 15. And that is about the level of player to expect to be available. And since he was available after Byrd got hurt, we still could have worked him out. Or anyone? And no available WR is going to cost 4M. Vet minimum, and prorated at that.   What was your point again?

  Get your research  straight on the Panthers( and D. Byrd) before you blindly defend every move the organization has ever made. You always want to tell people they bitching if they dare present a few facts or a different opinion. Look in the mirror once in awhile

[panthers55]

19 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  If you would read with a little comprehension, you can plainly see I posted Jeremy Kerley TYPE. I didn’t mean him specifically, just that he was a player that was available at the end of the year after he was cut in week 15. And that is about the level of player to expect to be available. And since he was available after Byrd got hurt, we still could have worked him out. Or anyone? And no available WR is going to cost 4M. Vet minimum, and prorated at that.   What was your point again?

  Get your research  straight on the Panthers( and D. Byrd) before you blindly defend every move the organization has ever made. You always want to tell people they bitching if they dare present a few facts or a different opinion. Look in the mirror once in awhile

Again what is your point? The only guy you come up with was someone not available at that time plus he was suspended for 4 games for a PED violation on November 6th. He was released by the Jets  December 18th once he was reinstated.  So we should have picked him up ? And this is the type of player you see as an upgrade. Why don't you do your research before posting crap like that and attack our team with no basis.  Maybe you should  get your act together and look in your own mirror before coming after someone else. So again give me specific guys Hurney could have gotten as an upgrade at the end of October. If not you have no point at all.

[Toomers]

31 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again what is your point? The only guy you come up with was someone not available at that time plus he was suspended for 4 games for a PED violation on November 6th. He was released by the Jets  December 18th once he was reinstated.  So we should have picked him up ? And this is the type of player you see as an upgrade. Why don't you do your research before posting crap like that and attack our team with no basis.  Maybe you should  get your act together and look in your own mirror before coming after someone else. So again give me specific guys Hurney could have gotten as an upgrade at the end of October. If not you have no point at all.

   You want me to go back and research every available WR in the second half of last season even though I already stated they would be of similar value to Kerley. Who, once again was just used as an example. Something you can’t seem to comprehend. Yet you can’t even seem to keep up with our own team. You came up n attacking with bogus facts about Byrd. And seem totally unwilling to acknowledge it. You attacked me first armed with BS and now get upset that I pointed it out. 

  And yes, I would have taken Kerley over Clay, Bersin or Frazier.  Or just about anybody. Hurney banked on two players who( wasjust recovering from injury) and was 4 weeks away from even coming off IR) to stay healthy.