Kyle Orton may be the most ironic good QB in decades.

[dimbee]

You can't say as a Bears fan, that we don't have the talent, at very important positions, and then say that you like trading away draft picks....JMO.

Huh?

[thefuzz]

I am happy that we traded draft picks for a QB.

We don't have good depth.

It seems that Bears fans are saying it's OK that Cutler is under performing because of lack of talent, but were totally on board with trading draft picks.

[scpanther22]

So what does this say about the argument that brady is just a system QB?

[Epistaxis]

I don't think Cutler is underperforming.

I think he is getting used to a new system, a new team, new coaches, and is still a relatively young QB, being asked to carry a team offensively that is still quite young as a group at the skill positions.

Overall I am pleased with the trade, and likely so are the Broncos.

[dimbee]

I am happy that we traded draft picks for a QB.

We don't have good depth.

It seems that Bears fans are saying it's OK that Cutler is under performing because of lack of talent, but were totally on board with trading draft picks.

This is the first time I've heard any of those statements... And who am I hearing them from? None other than thefuzz- a Panthers fan. How ironic.

[bigpro]

I remember everyone talking all that poo about how Denver's O Line doesn't allow QB sacks...

Current sack allowed stats:

Denver: 8

Chicago: 10

It's actually 9 and 10, but it's over 6 games and 5 games respectively, an average of 1.5 for Denver and 2 for Chicago. Over a season, Denver would, on average, give up 8 fewer sacks.

The trade is more than just Orton/Cutler straight up. The trade allowed Denver to take Knowshon at 12 instead of what would have been the original plan of taking Orakpo. With the pick at 18, they were allowed to use the 12 on Knowshon (who San Diego was going to take at 15, for obvious reasons) and still get a quality future guy for the 3-4 in Ayers. Then with an extra first rounder next year, they had the flexibility to pick up that future CB (Alphonso Smith) everyone is looking for early in the 2nd round- the guy you don't need today but will need tomorrow. The trade allowed the Broncos to not only prepare for now with Orton and Knowshon but prepare for the future with two picks plus still have a first rounder next year.

Just looking at Orton/Cutler, slight edge to Orton.

Looking at Orton+Knowshon+Ayers+Smith+2010 First rounder compared to Culter+Knox, huge edge to Denver.

The thing Chicago fans are going to start seeing is that Cutler will win your hearts with amazing throws into tight spaces that few players in history can make, and then break your hearts on the next play with a pick thrown where no offensive players are. The Atlanta game was a good example of it. It's not an isolated incident, but will be a weekly episode.

[dimbee]

And yet it hasn't been a weekly episode... Very insightful!

[bigpro]

And yet it hasn't been a weekly episode... Very insightful!

Actually in each game he's had some very nice throws and some terrible throws, so it has been weekly and will continue. It just so happens he's won a couple of those. It is also fair to say he's had more near-picks than your average QB. Worse, if he's injured, any chance at the playoffs, or even a .500 season, are long gone.

[dimbee]

Dang, you're just full of insight today! If the starting QB gets hurt, the team will have a tough go of it. That's a groundbreaking statement right there!

[Epistaxis]

The Ayers and Smith thing is a reach. Lots of assumptions there.

Orton is a finished product.

It remains to be seen if Cutler at age 26 will mature in to a quarterback with not only an amazing skillset but a mindset of an elite QB.

We shall see. Again, I think it is waaaaaay premature to make any judgments about this trade, since this season is only 6 weeks old.

The Bears could still stumble or pick up steam.

So could the Broncos.

Overall I'd say the Bears picked up a franchise QB that is still very young and could lead the franchise for the next 8-10 years.

Can the same be said of Orton?

Maybe.

A long term focus is necessary in evaluating this, and I think people lose sight of that fact when getting the giggles over Denver and Orton.

I root for Kyle Orton. I like the Broncos.

I just think it is dumb to start the comparison crap like people do when the Vikings play the Packers with the whole Rodgers vs. Favre crap.

[bigpro]

The Ayers and Smith thing is a reach. Lots of assumptions there.

Actually it's not because the draft ideally is for the future, though the Bears appear to have lost sight of that.

And you say you don't like the QB comparisons- what I'm tired of is this constant use of the term franchise quarterback. First, it's about as meaningful as shutdown corner, and second, I would await the anointing until he's proven himself to be more than a .500 quarterback.

And Dimbee, while most teams would struggle losing their starting QB, the Bears would have a high probability of losing out the remainder of the season. Just seems like a disproportionately high risk to take, especially watching Cutler dive head first into the endzone in the fourth game of the season.

[Epistaxis]

Liklihood of Kyle Orton being injured>>>>>>>>>Jay Cutler being injured.

If you prefer the term "Elite QB playing at the highest level for a number of years" vs. "Franchise".....I think we can be ok here.

As to shutdown corner.....meh. Totally depends on the scheme you run. If you don't bump-n-run, it doesn't really matter.

[bigpro]

Liklihood of Kyle Orton being injured>>>>>>>>>Jay Cutler being injured.

If you prefer the term "Elite QB playing at the highest level for a number of years" vs. "Franchise".....I think we can be ok here.

As to shutdown corner.....meh. Totally depends on the scheme you run. If you don't bump-n-run, it doesn't really matter.

Likelihood of Chris Simms producing wins>>>>>>>>>Caleb Hanie producing even one win. And with Cutler throwing his body around behind a suspect o-line, I challenge your first assertion anyway.

I can accept elite qb and will go on record as saying that Cutler will never be an elite- and if he couldn't break 500 in Denver against the AFC West, he ain't gonna do it in Chicago against the NFC North.

Oh, and "number of years"- if you don't give him a HUGE contract in the next year, those "number of years" will be somewhere else anyway. Might be hard to pay an elite salary to a 500 qb who only THINKS he's an elite. Where are you going to get the WRs anyway to help him be an elite? Guess not the draft.

[Miaoww]

The only thing I don't like about Cutler is that he tries to be a hero far too much. He forces passes he has no right to. Otherwise yeah he's an elite QB. Those are REALLY tough to come by so, regardless of how well Orton is doing in Denver, both teams should be happy with the trade.