Game of Thrones - Season 8

[Dex]

5 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

If you meant they are alive when they turn, then yes, it's shown on the show with the baby.     I'm not sure if they can breed or not but there doesn't seem to be a ton of them and the fact they want babies to turn kind of leads to this.    If they just wanted people to raise as wights they wouldn't have setup an agreement with Craster I'd guess.    

I'm pretty sure once you become a walker you are dead. Which means it's not possible for the Starks to have the blood of a walker because they can't breed. That's what I was saying.

[Zaximus]

40 minutes ago, Dex said:

I'm pretty sure once you become a walker you are dead. Which means it's not possible for the Starks to have the blood of a walker because they can't breed. That's what I was saying.

There isn't anywhere that says once someone is a white walker they are dead, but it's more like they are just changed into some sort of magical humanoid with powers.  

[Dex]

19 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

There isn't anywhere that says once someone is a white walker they are dead, but it's more like they are just changed into some sort of magical humanoid with powers.  

Do you believe (or is there any lore) that a walker can be returned to their human form?

[Zaximus]

5 minutes ago, Dex said:

Do you believe (or is there any lore) that a walker can be returned to their human form?

I don't remember reading it in the books or anything else that they can, but I'm sure I haven't read everything so maybe it's possible.    It seems at the time of GoT magic isn't even believed anymore and the Maesters, well most of them, hate it and have been trying to suppress it so who knows what is really possible.   I fully expect this season to ramp up when it comes to magic though.

[Bronn]

I've got a few speculations...

There are/were no female White Walkers, or Others. The only one even potentially mentioned was Night's Queen, and there is some debate as to what exactly she was.

The Night's King, and Night's King are two different people.

TNK is the one we see on the show. He's the one the Children created, for whatever reason (supposedly as a potential weapon against men, even though they already were post-Pact by a while,) and he's now the "leader" of the WWs. He's the byproduct of some pretty powerful magic/blood magic (he was shown as having the dragonglass embedded into his chest) and he somehow found a way to break his own bonds (magically) with the Children.

Night's King (the non WW guy) was a crazy dude, potentially broken by time traveling/influential Bran, who took himself the Night's Queen (female WW? or something else) and started making blood sacrifices at a fort on the Wall. His real name has pretty much been erased from history.

I'm wondering if Craster might be a descendant, on his mother's side, of someone descended from Night's King and Night's Queen. His mother was supposedly a wildling woman from Whitetree (named such because of a giant weirwood tree there, read: magic) and his father was from the Night's Watch. His blood is said to be black, and he describes his roots as "running deep." He also, obviously, turns all his sons out to the cold, which we are shown on the show means he basically gives them all over to the White Walkers for "conversion."

So, the theory/timeline I kinda have goes:

The Pact - Children of the Forest and First Men agree to stop warring. Children are skeptical, capture a man, and turn him into The Night's King with blood magic, in an attempt at creating a super weapon to use against the First Men if they renege or from future invaders. I believe they may have created more, and it got a little out of control.

A couple thousand years pass, and then we get The Long Night - The Night's King has somehow figured out a way to break the bonds the Children placed on him, has developed his powers (using the weirwoods, warging, etc.) and has built an army of the dead as well as "The Others," or, the other WWs that the Children had created. He descends upon the world, hoping to destroy both the Children and the First Men.

The Night's Watch is formed, the Wall is built, and the WWs and TNK are driven to the extreme north of the realm.

Here's where it gets a little tinfoil hattery...

Suppose TNK, driven back and forced to rebuild his army/hone his powers uses his abilities to create /warg into the woman that would be known as Night's Queen, seduce the man that would eventually become NK, and trick him into the whole "sacrificing" thing at the Wall, hoping to somehow break the spell that prevented him from crossing through it. I'm not sure it ever goes into detail about what kinds of sacrifices NK was making to The Others, but it could have very much been exactly what Craster did. Giving up men/male infants, so that TNK could rebuild his army, would at least be a bonus side effect.

The whole "I shall bear no children" thing from the Night's Watch oath could have very well been brought about because of Night's King.

I think Craster was just carrying on the tradition of Night's King, who very well could have been his ancestor, and who also could have very well had his very blood changed by magic.

The Night's King needs living male bodies because he can't simply breed White Walkers.

Rangers go missing. Babies are carried off in the night. As the Wildlings' insult goes "The Others take you!"

I would assume that once you're converted to a White Walker that you are basically just a magical clone of TNK in a way from that point on, and just a soldier in his future efforts. I don't think there is any coming back from that.
 

[Dex]

I suppose it's certainly possible. Solid theory.

 

Although I'm a little confused with the difference between TNK and NK. I thought they were the same person. The Night King being the first man that was turned. Also isn't Uncle Benjen half in/half out? The children used dragon glass in his chest to prevent him from turning. Clarification? 

[Bronn]

I just kind of skimmed through that video that NotN posted. Some of the similar ideas I had, but I don't know that I buy into the Starks having any WW blood in their veins.

As I theorized, I think there are just simply no female WWs, and they've used the Night's Watch, Wildlings, and whomever else they can get male humans from over the years (Craster) to build their army.

One would assume that during The Long Night, TNK would have eventually run out of dead bodies to replenish his wight army with, and he would have fled with his remaining WWs (clones) until he could rebuild again. Think how many dead Wildlings, Night's Watchmen, etc. he's been able to reanimate over that time. Also think about how many live male humans he's gotten his hands on in that span.

[Bronn]

4 minutes ago, Dex said:

Although I'm a little confused with the difference between TNK and NK. I thought they were the same person. The Night King being the first man that was turned. Also isn't Uncle Benjen half in/half out? The children used dragon glass in his chest to prevent him from turning. Clarification? 

I think (still not 100% sure) that The Night's King was/is the first White Walker... The one the show showed the Children of the Forest plunging dragonglass into the heart of when he was tied to the weirwood, and his eyes turned blue.

Night's King was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. He ruled from The Nightfort for 13 years and used the Night's Watch as his own personal army. He fell in love with this mysterious woman/creature (super white, cold skin, very blue eyes, etc.,) and basically went crazy and was "sacrificing to The Others (the WWs)." Again, I don't know in what context he was sacrificing (blood, babies, live people, etc.) but he was eventually killed by Bran the Breaker (The King In The North at the time) and Joramun (the leader of the Wildlings at the time.) Old Nan says that Night's King was actually Bran the Breaker's brother (also a Stark.)

[Dex]

2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

I think (still not 100% sure) that The Night's King was/is the first White Walker... The one the show showed the Children of the Forest plunging dragonglass into the heart of when he was tied to the weirwood, and his eyes turned blue.

Night's King was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. He ruled from The Nightfort for 13 years and used the Night's Watch as his own personal army. He fell in love with this mysterious woman/creature (super white, cold skin, very blue eyes, etc.,) and basically went crazy and was "sacrificing to The Others (the WWs)." Again, I don't know in what context he was sacrificing (blood, babies, live people, etc.) but he was eventually killed by Bran the Breaker (The King In The North at the time) and Joramun (the leader of the Wildlings at the time.) Old Nan says that Night's King was actually Bran the Breaker's brother (also a Stark.)

I don't remember any of the second paragraph from the show. I'm assuming this is from the books. 

[Bronn]

29 minutes ago, Dex said:

I don't remember any of the second paragraph from the show. I'm assuming this is from the books. 

I thought Bran mentioned it when he ran into Sam at the Nightfort.

I had to go back and look, and he actually told another story about the Nightfort concerning the rat cook, lol.

I can't remember it being mentioned in the show either, but I will keep digging. I know for sure that Bran, Hodor, Meera, and Jojen went to the Nightfort to get through the wall. That's where they ran into Sam and Gilly. Season 3, episode 10.

But yeah, it is from the books and other ASOIAF lore.

[Bronn]

@Dex, this is a pretty good video on it. FFWD to 1:35 or so.

 

[Bronn]

JFC I CAN'T WAIT!
 

 

 

[CRA]

Do we think there will actually be someone claiming/sitting on the throne at the end?   I mean the posters teasing the season are all about that. 

Has Martin ever addressed if he plans to end his book in a similar overall nature that the show is going to go with? 

[Dex]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Do we think there will actually be someone claiming/sitting on the throne at the end?   I mean the posters teasing the season are all about that. 

Has Martin ever addressed if he plans to end his book in a similar overall nature that the show is going to go with? 

I'm not sure how it will end. I just don't think there will be a "happy" ending. Humanity simply cannot win this war on paper. Best thing to do would be to head over to Essos until winter is over and then come back! Easy peasy. Let the Night King have his chair for a few years.