Game of Thrones - Season 8

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Bronn said:

JFC read my post. THE WALL WAS NOT DESTROYED. A part of the wall was broken down at EASTWATCH BY THE SEA.

Who else is gonna be chilling at Castle Black? When Tormund and crew went north, King's Landing arc was unresolved. Maybe they were awaiting further orders? Maybe they prefer to chill there for a bit, make use of the lodgings (not really many NW left to use them) or something like that? Maybe they went further north but came back because they had gotten word Jon was returning to the Wall?

I get wanting to nitpick writing things, but you're picking probably the worst parts of it, lol.

Nah.  Tormund said he was taking his folks back North.  That was back home.  They were done.  Having them just chilling for months at Castle Black makes no sense.   It was just there for a cute TV moment. 

maybe lots of things happened.  Sure.  Maybe they went home.  Maybe a raven went out to them.  But doing all this maybe X happened to explain things just goes back to what a botched and rushed story it was.   Basically everything after Snow killed Dany was junk and told horrifically. 

maybe you are right on the it being the wrong part of the wall.  I just remember Tormund being there when it went down.   

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Johnny Rockets said:

As Bronn just mentioned, the wall is hundreds of miles long and I believe has numerous castles along it. The part of the wall that was destroyed was far away from Castle Black which is what was shown at the end of the show. 

well, since Tormund was there when it went down....I assumed the section was fairly close to Castle Black.   Like I said, I could be wrong but was basing it on the characters who witnessed it.  Maybe they said he went to the part by the sea randomly and missed it. 

[Bronn]

So, since the show is done, maybe I'll hit some high points on differences in the books thus far, for non-book readers.

Catelyn's body is found downstream after the Red Wedding. She's given the kiss of life and brought back by Berric Dondarrion, who dies in the process. She takes charge of the Brotherhood Without Banners and is known as Lady Stoneheart. She can't talk because of her neck wound. She gets some revenge on some random Freys and other Lannister collaborators by hanging them. Her and the Brotherhood run into Brienne, who is looking for Sansa at Jaime's request. Catelyn, through an interpreter, tells Brienne that she is broke her oath to protect her daughters, and that she carries a Lannister sword now. In order for her to prove her loyalties, she is told to kill Jaime. Brienne refuses, citing him as a changed man. As Brienne, Pod, and another guy from their party are about to be hanged, Brienne shouts a word. We are left with that dropoff point right now.

Jon is indeed stabbed multiple times by his Night's Watch brethren. However, he has not been rezzed yet in the books. It is assumed that he will be, much like on the show (although it is thought that he's warged into Ghost or something.)

Tyrion, in the books, is currently with a group that has somewhat just joined Dany. For a while, and still to an extent, he is acquainted with Griff and Young Griff, characters who later reveal/identify themselves as Jon Connington and Aegon Targaryen. It is thought among book readers, that this is a fake Targaryen, though. Currently, Tyrion, captured by Jorah Mormont, and Jorah actually join the Second Sons mercenary group after being enslaved for a while. They are slated to fight against Dany at Slaver's Bay, but in the released chapters from Winds of Winter, Tyrion convinces them to instead fight on her side.

Those are the first big ones I thought of... I'll bring up more later.

 

[cptx]

8 hours ago, Bronn said:

The Valonqar prophecy meant nothing.

Was that even a thing in the show? All I remember is it being said that her kids would all die.

[thefuzz]

I thought the ending was fine, I didn't like how they got to it, but still held my attention MUCH longer than any TV show ever.

 

Really hope that we one day get to see just how powerful Bran was the entire series, and how much stuff he had to manipulate during his life to both kill the NK, and take the throne himself.

Arya is on another adventure sailing for the Starks, Jon is back "home" and doesn't have to be the King, Bran is whatever the fug Bran is plus he's the King.  Bronn get's his castle. Tyrian is Tywin all over again.  Sansa gets to rule the free North like she should.

I don't like that there are SO many open stories still though, like what was the point of Varys dying?  I mean, other than to add another straw to Jon's camel?  I don't like that we had 6+ seasons of slow character building, then things are just tossed away like pooped pants.

[Bronn]

15 minutes ago, cptx said:

Was that even a thing in the show? All I remember is it being said that her kids would all die.

You're right. I had to go back and watch the prophecy scene again. Good catch.

That said, they've done other things as I mentioned that didn't really hold up. Also, they completely disregarded seemingly important prophecy from the source, like the Valonqar thing.

[thefuzz]

10 minutes ago, Bronn said:

You're right. I had to go back and watch the prophecy scene again. Good catch.

That said, they've done other things as I mentioned that didn't really hold up. Also, they completely disregarded seemingly important prophecy from the source, like the Valonqar thing.

I mean, at the end of the day the revelation of Jon being the "true king" meant little to nothing to the show or the ending.

That should have been a HUGE deal, but nah, just another thing to be swept under the rug.

[Bronn]

Also in the books:

Mance Rayder still alive and likely at Winterfell, posing as a musician, plotting to free "Arya" Stark, fake bride to Ramsay. It is really Jeyne Poole IIRC and I think Theon helps her escape.

We meet a wildling skinchanger warg for a while that is pretty badass. Varamyr Sixskins. He wargs into and takes pets of all kinds of animals. He even tries to warg into another human (woman) and makes them go crazy. He succumbs to his own wounds, but at the time of his death he wargs into his wolf, One Eye. This is likely setting up the ability of Jon to warg into Ghost.

Sansa is in the Vale posing as Littlefinger's bastard daughter, Alayne Stone.

Stannis is still alive and about to fight the Boltons. He's been at the Wall a while rallying northmen to his cause.

[Proudiddy]

Imo, sloppy, sloppy, sloppy...  I was reserving judgment on how I felt about the whole final season until we saw it in its entirety, namely the finale.  Even though I knew what was going to happen bc of the leaked spoilers, I was really hoping they wrote it and edited it smoothly to tie it up nice and clean...  instead, jarring after jarring jump cut they just seemed to give us an hour and a half of bullet points via dialogue, instead of an essay.  Like the writing was so robotic, it literally felt like all of the conversations were actually voiceovers for the audience as a sort of narration to 3x0lain the actions they were taking, out loud.  As someone else pointed out, the Tyrion about to be executed, but instead is allowed to talk for an hour and appoint all of the positions of power scene was possibly the worst, most disingenuous scene I've witnessed in the entire series.  Grey Worm went from telling Tyrion to shut up, ready to kill at a second's notice anyone he perceived to be an enemy of his (now fallen) Queen, and then allows him to create a new government instead, lol.  It was unbelievable.  Then, you are will king to forgive Tyrion, but are insistent on Jon being punished, so he is sentenced to Castle Black.  Except, as others have pointed out, there is no longer a Castle Black, or a need for one, because there is no Night King.  But, I figure, new rules, new rules right?  Nope.  Because then they make it a point to tell him he can't take a wife or have children.  fug that.  The most heroic character in all of the GoT universe, and that's how he gets rewarded?  Speaking of...  even the beginning is asinine.  Tyrion wants Jon to kill Dany.  The same Dany that Tyrion betrayed Varys and had him executed for, for foreseeing what she was becoming and trying to have her poisoned before all of this KL massacre even happened.  If Tyrion let Varys poison her, they could've written it to where she still wins the war at KL but suddenly falls ill and dies from the poison after, it could then be revealed Jon is the heir to the throne and bam.  But, I understand the theme of love and duty that they used their for conflict to make the stakes higher for Jon by having to kill his love.  But still...  after all of that sacrifice.  He gets sent to live in the true north, and Tyrion gets to become King's Hand despite the fact that he pretty much caused all of that?  And as others have said, I kept thinking, if the unsullied were leaving anyway, wtf does it matter what they want done with Jon?  Tell him to act like he's leaving and then come back and chill...  instead, the family legit basically tells him to leave and never come back lol.  So dumb.  Super wack.

Then Bran...  the dude is psychic.  He can see past, present, and future.  But, the writers pretty much used him as a prop all season, instead of a character with any sort of depth.  Then all of a sudden, he tells them he came back for this very reason?  He already saw everything that was gonna happen, so he just sat there and waited it out until he could be appointed king?  Again.  Wack.  

Overall, I wasn't mad with the plot itself.  Bran becoming King.  Tyrion becoming the hand again.  Sansa as queen of the North.  Arya going to explore.  Dany being killed - I foresaw that seasons ago...  but Jon's story was the one I had the biggest issue with.  But, i guess it depends on how you frame it too...  even when we were still in the thick of GRRM's source material, he demonstrated that always doing the right thing doesn't guarantee any rewards...  Jon's entire story has mirrored Ned's - carrying other's burdens, led by his principles and values above all else which is about the greater good of the people, a natural leader by example but doesn't necessarily want leadership...  he finally is forced to carry Tyrion's burden and make another great sacrifice for the greater good, and gets absolutely shat on for it, even by his own family.  But, then again, I've seen it pointed out that in E4 Tormund even alluded to Jon belonging in the true north, and in the final scene, as Jon crossed into the true north with the wildlings, he smiles. As to signal he is happy to leave it all behind.  So, in that sense, it's bittersweet...  and I like that the Starks, after all they have been through,  come out on top.  That is satisfying. And at least Jon will still be able to have a woman and child at some point, I guess...  but the show glossing over the fact that they didn't even need a night's watch anymore was just lazy and sloppy.

But my overall impression of the final season again, is I had no real problem with the end of the story and what happened with the characters, but rather with the pacing of the final season.  Had they stretched out what they had for another 2 episodes at least, they could've made it a lot cleaner and smoother.  But it was clear D+D wanted it to be over with.  The pacing was just so jarring that it left a lot of holes in reasoning that were never there in previous seasons.

I'd love it if one of the spinoffs was based on what happens to the surviving characters, but I heard HBO has already said they won't be...  so, what's done is done.

[Bronn]

4 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I mean, at the end of the day the revelation of Jon being the "true king" meant little to nothing to the show or the ending.

That should have been a HUGE deal, but nah, just another thing to be swept under the rug.

That's Jon's character, though. All along, he's never wanted to be anything more than a ranger in the Night's Watch.

Even his first time around at the wall, he didn't even really want to be Lord Commander. He didn't want to be King in the North. He didn't want the Iron Throne.

Just because one is born an heir does not make one long for royalty.

In his mind, all he ever wanted to be was the bastard son of Eddard Stark, lol.

[PurityControl]

I don't have a problem with the ending, except they could of drawn it out a little more maybe another season or a few more episodes so the events carried more weight emotionally, everything felt hollow this season.

 

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I mean, at the end of the day the revelation of Jon being the "true king" meant little to nothing to the show or the ending.

That should have been a HUGE deal, but nah, just another thing to be swept under the rug.

I still want GRRM to talk. 

Ever since he made the comment about how TV guys get fixated on changing stories once an audience figures it out they essentially trash all the prior work/foreshadowing/etc.    I never get why he said that if it didn't apply here. 

I also didn't get why D&D said they didn't feel like Jon should kill the Night King and that it would be Arya...if it was GRRM's plot. 

[natty]

20 minutes ago, CRA said:

I still want GRRM to talk. 

Ever since he made the comment about how TV guys get fixated on changing stories once an audience figures it out they essentially trash all the prior work/foreshadowing/etc.    I never get why he said that if it didn't apply here. 

I also didn't get why D&D said they didn't feel like Jon should kill the Night King and that it would be Arya...if it was GRRM's plot. 

I think GRRM told them certain things about the ended but not everything.  Either he doesn't know how he's going to wrap up some plots or he just didn't want to tell them for some reason.  Like the winterfell plot line from s7...I think they were told there will be tension between Sansa and Arya so Littlefinger will try to exploit that and he ends up dead, but he didn't give them any kind of details on it(so D&D just threw something together).

Likewise I think they were told about the major plot points for this season.  Dany burns kings landing and Jon kills her(this is the main red wedding type event to close out the story), Jaime eventually goes back to Cercei and dies because of it, Sansa become queen in the north, etc, etc.  They just really botched it all, just like they did with Littlefinger.

The bottom line is that they could have done this story justice but they were insistent on wrapping it all up as quickly as they could.  They originally only wanted 7 seasons while GRRM wanted more like 12.  Hell if you really tried you could tell the story in a 3 hour movie....it would suck beyond belief...but you could do it.  That's why almost everyone is okay with how things ended up but hate the way they got there.

[CRA]

“When I got to the [Dragonpit scene] in the last episode and they’re like, ‘What about Bran?’ I had to get up and pace around the room,” he recalls. “I genuinely thought it was a joke script and that [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] sent to everyone a script with their own character ends up on the Iron Throne. ‘Yeah, good one guys. Oh s—, it’s actually real?’”