Game of Thrones - Season 8

[Bronn]

20 minutes ago, Toolbox said:

I honestly couldn't believe how shoehorned bronn is in the show.. the dude had very little impact in the books.

It is because of Jerome Flynn's acting, tbqh. If he wasn't such a perfect fit for the role, he wouldn't have been that important. Even GRRM kinda hinted that book Bronn is way less important.

[CRA]

1 hour ago, natty said:

Sansa was totally right.  The north would never accept being ruled by some s̶o̶u̶t̶h̶e̶r̶n̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶g̶....err the trueborn son of Ned Stark?

Great point.  

That entire scene was horrific.  

[CRA]

38 minutes ago, Bronn said:

It is because of Jerome Flynn's acting, tbqh. If he wasn't such a perfect fit for the role, he wouldn't have been that important. Even GRRM kinda hinted that book Bronn is way less important.

Bronn being inserted at the end was pure fan service.  He was a great TV character up until the end.  But he made zero sense being inserted there.  

Oh and fug Jamie Lannister getting his update.  Not sure why folks are hyping that scene.   Jamie Lannister ended up going down in the history books better than Snow as some noble dude.  

[PanthersBigD]

One of the least believable elements of the entire show was the guy cast as Grey Worm, a scrawny guy with a receding chin. Lame. 

[natty]

1 hour ago, Toolbox said:

Honestly it's hbo's fault this season was rushed.. they had every opportunity to fire and replace D&D and extend GOT for at least one more season for a proper farewell.. I honestly rather we get a spinoff about robert's rebellion than a spinoff for arya on a boat heading west..

D&D had exclusive rights.  They could have sold those rights for as much as they wanted and moved on to SW like they wanted.  Instead they just completely screwed what could have been the best tv show ever.  They've spent so much time sniffing their own farts that they actually thought this would be a great ending.

[djp14]

1 hour ago, Toolbox said:

Honestly it's hbo's fault this season was rushed.. they had every opportunity to fire and replace D&D and extend GOT for at least one more season for a proper farewell.

This doesn't really make any sense.

D&D said they could wrap everything up in 2 seasons (saving HBO millions in the process). At that point in time, HBO had no reason not to trust them.

[Cary Kollins]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

The more I reflect on it, the more the Jon Snow ending becomes an abomination.  

1.  Does it really matter that he killed Dany.   Even if he didn't want the throne what was even the point of the big Aegon Targaryen reveal ultimately?  He was ultimately the rightful heir to the throne over Dany.   So he killed the chick trying to swindle it from him.  I mean, yeah, he didn't want to rule but how does his bloodline not at least not get him off the hook from punishment.   So he has to be punished because he killed someone that took the throne by force? Someone essentially fraudulently jumping his place?   How does that not even get brought up by all the folks discussing Jon's punishment with the all powerful Grey Worm?  I mean seriously.  

2.  Then the punishment is nonsense.  Take the black and go serve your time at the Wall?  There is no Night's Watch.  Night King also destroyed the wall which magically has been rebuilt.   There is no functioning purpose for folks to be at the wall despite Tyrion trying to explain it all away saying they still needed a place to send naughty people.   And why the fug is Tormond and his folks chilling at Castle Black? essentially chilling there for months? instead of going exactly where they said they would be going which was back to the real North?  But I guess they just figured, nah, let's camp here at Castle Black in case Jon Snow happens to come back and then we will finally go back North. 

 

my two cents on this popular line of thinking:

 

Dany's intent was to "break the wheel", which to me is the never ending battle for the throne based on family bloodlines. Jon was the "true heir", but why was he? Because his great great grandfather murdered the prior families king? Ultimately Dany was successful in breaking the wheel with Jon's help. It was sloppy and rushed but I think it was a satisfying conclusion to that whole saga. Now future King's will be decided not by bloodline but by a vote from the Lords and what not.

Jon going up North wasn't to watch the wall. Tyrion knew the night's watch was no longer a thing. He duped the Unsullied into thinking he'd be practically imprisoned at the Wall, when in reality he's going to be free with the North folk. They even made an effort to show gross growing through the snow, signaling "Winter is over".

I think the last few seasons have major flaws for sure, but I think the writer's wrapped it up pretty damn well....and I think a rewatch of the entire series will paint these final seasons in a better light.

[Cary Kollins]

Also this is a great piece on what GOT is and isn't, and it helps bring the final season in perspective. Long story short, GOT was Martin's response to the cookie cutter "good vs. evil" themes of Lord of the Rings.

https://cinemasangha.com/2019/05/13/this-has-always-been-what-game-of-thrones-is/

Quote

ASoIaF/GoT  (I’ll just call it GoT from here on out) is about what happens after Happily Ever After. You have to remember that the whole series is the aftermath of Robert’s Rebellion, which is the prototypical fantasy story – the people of an oppressed kingdom rise up against a mad king and put a ‘better man’ on the throne. You could do a whole series on Robert’s Rebellion, which is full of heroic moments and brave knights and last minute betrayals and heroes saving the innocent (while also murdering babies), and end it on a note that is triumphant and positive. 

But Martin knows that life doesn’t just stop at The End, and he wanted to see what happened next. GoT is that story. And it always has been, from the beginning – Martin always wanted to look behind the heroic facade and find the people and their flaws and their ugliness. The story has always been fairly cynical, even if that cynicism is informed by the entirety of human history. 

 

[RealBitsOfPanther]

I was secretly hoping for Jon vs Grey Worm, but it def wouldn't of made sense with the plot. 

Grey Worm didn't want that smoke. Lol.

[natty]

39 minutes ago, CRA said:

Great point.  

That entire scene was horrific.  

Everything about it was bad.  Even if I could look past all the ridiculousness of this season and was in the moment...   One of the most important characters in the show just tragically died.  Grey Worm, who almost never shows emotion, is furious.  All the important people left in Westeros are deciding how to negotiate with the unsullied that occupy the city...trying to prevent yet another war ....and they all have a hearty chuckle at the thought of democracy.  Great timing there.

And then they decide that there will essentially be a war of succession every time a king dies.  I guess we're just supposed to believe this new world they're in everyone will just agree on a new king....because people agreeing with each other and putting aside their differences is such a powerful theme in this story.

[Cary Kollins]

12 minutes ago, natty said:

 

And then they decide that there will essentially be a war of succession every time a king dies.  I guess we're just supposed to believe this new world they're in everyone will just agree on a new king....because people agreeing with each other and putting aside their differences is such a powerful theme in this story.

 

Jon asked Tyrion if this was the right thing to do and even Tyrion wasn’t sure. “Ask me that again in ten years.” 

[Bronn]

19 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

Also this is a great piece on what GOT is and isn't, and it helps bring the final season in perspective. Long story short, GOT was Martin's response to the cookie cutter "good vs. evil" themes of Lord of the Rings.

https://cinemasangha.com/2019/05/13/this-has-always-been-what-game-of-thrones-is/

 

This is 100% true. It was about the power vacuum created by plotting and scheming in a post/not-so-illustrious monarchy. It had far reaching (continental) implications.

The biggest, main two characters were "should have beens."

A princess, whisked away with her brother, destined to be a chess piece/side story in the coming political revenge storm, that instead actually upended the concept of male dominated leadership.

And then a son, an heir, hidden away by his uncle, destined to just live his life as a bastard actually gets thrown into a game he wanted no real part in the whole time.

One could argue that neither Jon nor Dany wanted any real part of being a leader of the Seven Kingdoms. It was others calling them into those roles.

Do you think Dany, when her and Viserys where just kicking around Pentos, was thinking about freeing slaves, ruling Westeros, and flying around on Dragons? Did Jon have any aspirations other than being like his uncle Benjen and guarding the realm at the Wall? Neither of these characters even had a big part in the whole Game of Thrones story until the last couple seasons of the show. Even in the books, so far, neither of them really has shown a real desire to have anything to do with King's Landing or the Iron Throne.

The only real impact that any of the leaders, post Robert (or maybe even post Aerys II) had was somewhat locally and resigned to battles over petty BS. The real stories here weren't really revolving around aspirations towards the Iron Throne, but more about individuals' perspectives in the power vacuum created by the political turmoil (and obviously the supernatural threat posed by the WWs.)

[CRA]

51 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

 

my two cents on this popular line of thinking:

 

Dany's intent was to "break the wheel", which to me is the never ending battle for the throne based on family bloodlines. Jon was the "true heir", but why was he? Because his great great grandfather murdered the prior families king? Ultimately Dany was successful in breaking the wheel with Jon's help. It was sloppy and rushed but I think it was a satisfying conclusion to that whole saga. Now future King's will be decided not by bloodline but by a vote from the Lords and what not.

Jon going up North wasn't to watch the wall. Tyrion knew the night's watch was no longer a thing. He duped the Unsullied into thinking he'd be practically imprisoned at the Wall, when in reality he's going to be free with the North folk. They even made an effort to show gross growing through the snow, signaling "Winter is over".

I think the last few seasons have major flaws for sure, but I think the writer's wrapped it up pretty damn well....and I think a rewatch of the entire series will paint these final seasons in a better light.

2.  Well it still doesn’t explain how the wall suddenly was repaired.  Nor is there any reason for Tormund and crew to be chilling at Castle Black for months. 

I guess I can accept the logic addressing the first part that it was all bullshit to appease Grey Worm and Snow would simply be happiest in the real North.   But the 2nd part just highlights how lazy and bad the writing and storytelling was IMO

[Bronn]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

2.  Well it still doesn’t explain how the wall suddenly was repaired.  Nor is there any reason for Tormund and crew to be chilling at Castle Black for months. 

I guess I can accept the logic addressing the first part that it was all bullshit to appease Grey Worm and Snow would simply be happiest in the real North.   But the 2nd part just highlights how lazy and bad the writing and storytelling was IMO

JFC read my post. THE WALL WAS NOT DESTROYED. A part of the wall was broken down at EASTWATCH BY THE SEA.

Who else is gonna be chilling at Castle Black? When Tormund and crew went north, King's Landing arc was unresolved. Maybe they were awaiting further orders? Maybe they prefer to chill there for a bit, make use of the lodgings (not really many NW left to use them) or something like that? Maybe they went further north but came back because they had gotten word Jon was returning to the Wall?

I get wanting to nitpick writing things, but you're picking probably the worst parts of it, lol.