NFL concludes Panthers workplace harassment investigation

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, t96 said:

That's not relevant whatsoever. You are flat wrong on this. Admit it instead of deflecting...

This is not what I was discussing but I'll play the game. Possibly but we don't know that for sure. I can't claim to know the laws or the specific details of the CBA or league rules that apply to this and neither can you. Its conceivable that he could get out of paying it once he's no longer associated with the league. Failure to pay the fine could result in a league ban or some other punishment but it wouldn't necessarily be forced out of him--that would depend on the laws relating to how the league's fining system is set up. 

It's pretty silly to be talking about anyways because he'll almost certainly just pay it and move on.

He doesn't owe the league the 2.75 million he just got fined? You have proof of this?

The fine was levied at a time while he still is part of the league, and subject to a CBA that he helped negotiate.

Yes, he owes it.  No, he can't get out of paying it.

1 hour ago, t96 said:

I don't really understand why you'd trust the NFL to investigate any types of issues with their terrible terrible track record. They are a sports league...

Hence why they might hire an independent investigator.  Like say. someone who was a former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York?

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Public shame is worse for  him than any fine they could possibly levy

Public shame plus losing the team that he built, and having people not even want your name associated with what is, for all intents and purposes, your life.

I actually think that's the most painful part of it.

[Davidson Deac II]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He doesn't owe the league the 2.75 million he just got fined? You have proof of this?

The fine was levied at a time while he still is part of the league, and subject to a CBA that he helped negotiate.

Yes, he owes it.  No, he can't get out of paying it.

Hence why they might hire an independent investigator.  Like say. someone who was a former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York?

Not saying he won't pay it, but if he doesn't pay it, what are they going to do?  Unless its a situation where Tepper cuts the league a check, and then they cut Richardson one, minus the fine.  

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Not saying he won't pay it, but if he doesn't pay it, what are they going to do?  Unless its a situation where Tepper cuts the league a check, and then they cut Richardson one, minus the fine.  

Lawsuit, and since he was subject to the CBA (which he helped write) he'll lose.

[Davidson Deac II]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Lawsuit, and since he was subject to the CBA (which he helped write) he'll lose.

Lawsuit which might drag out for years even if the league has the upper hand.  Given his age, might be a losing proposition for the league.  Maybe his estate would pay eventually, but it would mean that he wouldn't.  

 

Of course, for all we know about the process, he might have had to pay a deposit, or something like a deposit.  And the league just deducts the fine out of that.  

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Lawsuit which might drag out for years even if the league has the upper hand.  Given his age, might be a losing proposition for the league.  Maybe his estate would pay eventually, but it would mean that he wouldn't.  

Of course, for all we know about the process, he might have had to pay a deposit, or something like a deposit.  And the league just deducts the fine out of that.  

I doubt he'd have much leverage, and given that as someone pointed out, there are laws in NC about workplace harassment, I think he's better off cooperating.

But again, if Tepper were to just take 2.75 million off the price and send it to the league, what's to stop him? It was already mentioned that Tepper insisted Richardson pay any fines or such as a term of the sale.

[t96]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

He doesn't owe the league the 2.75 million he just got fined? You have proof of this?

The fine was levied at a time while he still is part of the league, and subject to a CBA that he helped negotiate.

Yes, he owes it.  No, he can't get out of paying it.

Hence why they might hire an independent investigator.  Like say. someone who was a former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York?

Once again, him owing the league is not relevant at all to what you were claiming and I was arguing—that the league or Tepper could take that money out of the sale price. Neither could do that.

 

I understand that. However we don’t know what is in the CBA about those who don’t pay fines. Are they banned from the league? Is there a specific law that applies that makes it a real debt that civil court could take care of? I don’t know. If you have something specific on that feel free to share it but just because the NFL says “you owe us money” doesn’t necessarily mean he has to pay it, whether he’s in the league or not. There very may be other consequences instead and ones which he’d be fine with accepting. I don’t know and neither do you unless you provide some kind of evidence that you know.

 

It’s funny that you say “independent” investigator... The league is hiring him and paying him. He’s not independent, he’s working for the league—and to get the league’s desired outcome: which is what’s best for the league’s PR and bottom line. If the best thing for the league was to quietly say JR did something and then fine him and end it then that’s easy enough to make happen.

[Woodie]

56 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Not saying he won't pay it, but if he doesn't pay it, what are they going to do?  Unless its a situation where Tepper cuts the league a check, and then they cut Richardson one, minus the fine.  

I'm sure that as part of his ownership contract, there is language that stipulates that he has to abide by any league rulings and findings as well as be responsible for any fines and/or assessments.  As part of that, he could appeal the penalty, but when the league declines his appeal, he will be legally bound to pay the fine.  This is likely why the findings came out before the sale went through.  Since he is still technically the owner of the Panthers, he falls under the authority of the league, so they can still impose a fine on him.

But as you said, he may not be around when everything is finally settled.  Regardless, in the end, the money will come out of the Richardson estate.  And to be honest, with the money he just made on the sale, this is a negligible amount, and not really worth the fight for him (remember, he would also be on the hook for any legal fees he accumulates, which would be hefty).  

[Mr. Scot]

41 minutes ago, t96 said:

Once again, him owing the league is not relevant at all to what you were claiming and I was arguing—that the league or Tepper could take that money out of the sale price. Neither could do that.

I understand that. However we don’t know what is in the CBA about those who don’t pay fines. Are they banned from the league? Is there a specific law that applies that makes it a real debt that civil court could take care of? I don’t know. If you have something specific on that feel free to share it but just because the NFL says “you owe us money” doesn’t necessarily mean he has to pay it, whether he’s in the league or not. There very may be other consequences instead and ones which he’d be fine with accepting. I don’t know and neither do you unless you provide some kind of evidence that you know.

It’s funny that you say “independent” investigator... The league is hiring him and paying him. He’s not independent, he’s working for the league—and to get the league’s desired outcome: which is what’s best for the league’s PR and bottom line. If the best thing for the league was to quietly say JR did something and then fine him and end it then that’s easy enough to make happen.

Woodie addressed it above. And the investigator isn't a "he" which makes me wonder how much of this you're actually looking at.

I get that you want to absolve Richardson, don't think he should have to pay the fines or whatever, but that's not gonna happen.  He's going to pay the penalty.  The only question is how and when.

[pantherclaw]

And there it is folks. 

Justice at work!!!

[t96]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Woodie addressed it above. And the investigator isn't a "he" which makes me wonder how much of this you're actually looking at.

I get that you want to absolve Richardson, don't think he should have to pay the fines or whatever, but that's not gonna happen.  He's going to pay the penalty.  The only question is how and when.

"Woodie" is your source... and he started out by saying "I'm sure that" which indicates that those are what he thinks to be true without actually knowing he specifics either--which I would think are quite complex. 

And I was speaking generically about NFL investigations not about this one particularly. No I haven't looked too deep into it because it's pointless to do so. The investigation was a joke just as every league investigation is.

 

Actually you don't "get" anything. I don't care about whether JR pays the fine or should have to or not. I was only pointing out that some of your specific posts were absolutely ridiculous and flat out wrong, which they were. JR means nothing to me other than I recognize that he was instrumental in creating my favorite NFL team. I don't know him personally or care about him at all. The guy is probably a total creep and did things that I would never do and I wouldn't want anyone to do.

That doesn't mean the league or Tepper can take the fine amount out of the sale transaction--which is what you ridiculously suggested, twice. That's all I've been arguing here. As I stated numerous times before, none of this matters because he will likely just pay the fine. And if not, there may be other ways for them to force it out of him but definitely not the way you suggested.

[Mr. Scot]

17 minutes ago, t96 said:

"Woodie" is your source... and he started out by saying "I'm sure that" which indicates that those are what he thinks to be true without actually knowing he specifics either--which I would think are quite complex. 

And I was speaking generically about NFL investigations not about this one particularly. No I haven't looked too deep into it because it's pointless to do so. The investigation was a joke just as every league investigation is.

Actually you don't "get" anything. I don't care about whether JR pays the fine or should have to or not. I was only pointing out that some of your specific posts were absolutely ridiculous and flat out wrong, which they were. JR means nothing to me other than I recognize that he was instrumental in creating my favorite NFL team. I don't know him personally or care about him at all. The guy is probably a total creep and did things that I would never do and I wouldn't want anyone to do.

That doesn't mean the league or Tepper can take the fine amount out of the sale transaction--which is what you ridiculously suggested, twice. That's all I've been arguing here. As I stated numerous times before, none of this matters because he will likely just pay the fine. And if not, there may be other ways for them to force it out of him but definitely not the way you suggested.

You've argued against Richardson being guilty or having to apologize or pretty much anything since the story originally broke. For whatever reason, you've downplayed the allegations as no big deal, questioned the motives of the accusers and championed the notion that Richardson isn't deserving of any shame or disgrace repeatedly.

And now, by your own admission, you're not even looking that hard at the facts of the story.

But here's the reality: Jerry Richardson is guilty of sexual harassment. And not any sort of watered down "he looked at me wrong" variety of harassment either. What Richardson did was full on, old fashioned, abuse of power in an attempt to curry sexual favors harassment.

The charges were investigated by an independent and highly qualified attorney and investigator. They concluded that not only did he do the things we already knew about, but he actually did even more than has been brought to light.

He's guilty, he's going to pay the fine, he's gone from both the Panthers and the NFL forever, and he deserves to be. No amount of "we wouldn't have the team if not for him" excuses or mitigates anything he did. Frankly, he's probably getting off easier than he should, but regardless, it's over.

End of story.

[Asurfaholic]

12 hours ago, Pantha-kun said:

This dude is a multi billionare, thats pocket change to him. So no real personal consequences for him besides public shame i guess. 

 

12 hours ago, Zaximus said:

Chump change for him.    That's probably only 10% of Bersin's inheritance.  

 

8 hours ago, mc52beast said:

Just sold the team for over 2 billion...

 

Dude would miss a grey hair before he’d miss 2 mil

No offense but you guys act like you are living paycheck to paycheck with no grasp of wealth...

 

of course Richardson would miss nearly $3M. It’s ludicrous to suggest he wouldn’t miss it. It’s not like these people just have stacks and stacks of cash in places - they put their money to work. 3 million is a lot to lose, even for a rich as balls Richardson.

[cookinbrak]

11 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Guilty means "he did it". It's not purely a legal term.

As to the pertinent points of the finding...

That's all a fancy way of saying "he did it", which in common parlance makes him "guilty".

if you need further explanation, I'll be happy to link you to an online dictionary.

I would add that he didn't get fined nearly three million dollars just for the hell of it.

So, anybody exonerated of a crime by DNA evidence is going to stay in jail and is still "guilty", because someone else said he was "guilty"?

I find you guilty of being wrong. Therefore, you are wrong.