A hopeful observation about the Panthers offense

[Moo Daeng]

57 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

If Norv honestly gives Cam a lot of short passes, it’d definitely be a huge change for Norv’s philosophy and scheme.

In the past, Norv was pure Coryell and depended largely on deep iso routes. Generally put, that was my biggest concern about Norv coming in. I don’t have the confidence in Matt Kalil and Daryl Williams to be able to handle those long developing plays Norv used with the Vikings and Chargers. 

If Turner truly has put that in the past, I can’t wait to see how his new philosophy works out.

 

Turner specifically stated that he wanted to get the ball out of Newtons hands quicker and that vertical passing doesn't mean holding the ball longer. Vertical routes are a style and shape of routes not necessarily deeper. His offenses are known for high yards per attempt. This reflects efficiency.

[CPF4LIFE]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Maybe that is why they are putting Silatolu at G---to remind Cam to get rid of the ball.

Yes because amini will get put on his ass in  1 to 2 seconds.

[Cookie Lyon]

This is great! 

[Saca312]

1 hour ago, Moo Daeng said:

Vertical routes are a style and shape of routes not necessarily deeper

Unfortunately, Norv's offense generally is just as deep - if not more - than Shula in terms of the past. Like I said, it'd be a huge shift if Norv goes past that and focuses on a different offense I don't think we've seen much of from Norv. Turner's always been a Coryell guy and generally reliant on the vertical game.

The two above are staple examples of Norv. Long-developing plays full of ISO routes. This requires receivers to be exceptionally good and the OTs to be really good to last. Plus, it always helps to have a QB who can actually yank it downfield.

The first GIF I point to shows a 3x1 with a dig, drag, and post. Basically, a bunch of long-developing iso vertical routes. As seen, Matt Kalil sucks and gets beat real bad. And for the life of me I don't even know if Bridgewater can push it all the way downfield if the play even worked. Pretty much a disaster.

Same story for the second GIF. Long-developing ISO routes and an offensive line that can't block to save Bridgewater's life. No one's open downfield, and the o-line can't hold. 

Another critic has argued this during Norv's tenure with the Chargers:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/823211-san-diego-chargers-top-5-reasons-why-norv-turner-is-the-weakest-link#slide4

Quote

Question one: If the Chargers have a lead, what will be the first play from scrimmage on first down?

That’s right, Mike Tolbert up the middle.

Question two: What will Norv call now that it’s 2nd-and-9 with the Chargers in the lead in the second half?

If you said Ryan Mathews off tackle, you’d be right again.

Question three: Now it's third and long, what will be the play from the sidelines?

Give yourself another point if you said Philip Rivers would drop back to pass. 

I know these answers, you know these answers, every defense in the league knows these answers. Yet Turner will stick with his tried and true tendencies ad nauseum until they eventually work—which they never will.

...

 

Norv Turner must be the worst game coach I have ever seen.

In his defense, he is a decent practice coach and given enough time, he can come up with a playbook.

His problem lies in the fact that if anything deviates from his original plan, he cannot adjust to it. It simply takes him too long to figure out what he’s watching on the field and come up with a new strategy.

He's got a lot of critics from both the Vikings and Chargers concerning both his playbook in general, and his play-calling. While he has plenty of experience, he also has plenty of short-comings that came up in the past.

However, he is saying a lot of the right things and doing a lot of the right things in practice for the Panthers so far. A change from long-developing plays that aren't necessary in today's NFL will be a great change for starters. Hopefully, by this season he'll show he's able to adapt on the spot if his scripted playcallling doesn't work.

I'm being more optimistic about Norv compared to when I was when we first hired him. He's already showing change in terms of talk and action on the practice field. Hopefully, this isn't a fluke and he'll be a solid OC for us.

 

[Paa Langfart]

14 hours ago, Saca312 said:

I don’t have the confidence in Matt Kalil and Daryl Williams to be able to handle those long developing plays Norv used with the Vikings

Wasn't Matt Kalil with the Vikings when Norv was there ?

[Cyberjag]

10 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Norv Turner must be the worst game coach I have ever seen.

In his defense, he is a decent practice coach and given enough time, he can come up with a playbook.

His problem lies in the fact that if anything deviates from his original plan, he cannot adjust to it. It simply takes him too long to figure out what he’s watching on the field and come up with a new strategy.

Isn't this what people have been saying about Mike Shula for the past five years?

[Cary Kollins]

13 hours ago, Manther said:

Bring back the dab Cam.

 

I was thinking the same thing this morning. 2015 was the poo

[Manther]

10 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Unfortunately, Norv's offense generally is just as deep - if not more - than Shula in terms of the past. Like I said, it'd be a huge shift if Norv goes past that and focuses on a different offense I don't think we've seen much of from Norv.

Question three: Now it's third and long, what will be the play from the sidelines?

Give yourself another point if you said Philip Rivers would drop back to pass. 

...I know these answers, you know these answers, every defense in the league knows these answers. Yet Turner will stick with his tried and true tendencies ad nauseum until they eventually work—which they never will.

 

OK, that article was crap.    If you read it, every year the Chargers didn't have 14 wins, he considered it a down year.  An NFL coach passing on third and long.....what a moron.    Wow, Brady to Gronk, Brady to Edleman, Brady to Amendala, how predictable.  The Patriots are passing again, Belichek is sooo predictable.  Are you kidding me?  Shula ran off tackle on first down what ...80% of the time?....that is very different.

Norv has two rings, granted you have to watch the games on VHS, but Shula has none.  His offenses produced yards even with a so-so defense.  Shula couldn't do much without a short field or Newton leading the team in rushing.  He tried, creating a complex playbook with a lot of moving parts that made it hard for our guys to EXECUTE.  Norv>> Shula.  

[tiger7_88]

14 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Apparently Norv is willing to address what has been so painfully obvious to us all for so long.

[tiger7_88]

14 hours ago, carpant38 said:

That has been my knock on him from the start 

[tiger7_88]

11 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Question one: If the Chargers have a lead, what will be the first play from scrimmage on first down?

That’s right, Mike Tolbert up the middle.

Question two: What will Norv call now that it’s 2nd-and-9 with the Chargers in the lead in the second half?

If you said Ryan Mathews off tackle, you’d be right again.

Question three: Now it's third and long, what will be the play from the sidelines?

Give yourself another point if you said Philip Rivers would drop back to pass. 

[brandon_87]

14 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Maybe that is why they are putting Silatolu at G---to remind Cam to get rid of the ball.

Or they told him...we're not getting you o-line help, you better learn fast

[The Pieyed Piper]

Phillip Rivers would probably make another baby before a championship.

Cam can still do both.

[CPcavedweller]

14 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Huge knock on wood.

 

One thing I realized today is that Cam is getting rid of the ball quicker than I have ever seen. Gone are the days of 4 to 5 second passing plays. Most are out within 2-3 seconds.

 

Apparently Norv is willing to address what has been so painfully obvious to us all for so long.

My question to you: based on what you've witnessed since 2011, is Cam's slow drop back and seemingly lackadaisical approach to the mechanics of dropping back his own doing, or was it a part of coaching? We've all seen Cam slow down in his drop, not being ready to fire, mechanically sound, until well after the shorter routes have hit their mark. 

Perhaps this is something Norv, like most of us, saw? Cam should be ready to hit his early marks and then progress throughout. Personally, I believe this was a product of Cam thinking deep strikes rather than efficiency.