Is what Jake is doing a surprise?

[KillerKat]

there are plenty of very successful qb's with bad mechanics. I would even ssay most successful qbs have less than traditional mechanics. Jake is one of them. And I don't think that explains his shitty performances. He is making horrible decisions which is perhaps more troubling.

Jake has always had ALOT of things wrong with his mechanics. He's also been bad at things such as reading the field, locking on to receivers, recognizing blitzes, not securing the ball, etc. His good games outweighed the bad. However, eventually all the things wrong with him were gonna catch up to him and it has.

[Panthro]

Anyone who says they saw this coming is simply wrong.

I beg to differ on this....I for one have been quite vocal about my hate of Jake (the player you spineless ninnies not the person) for many moons. The nut huggers can back me up on this.

[natty]

I know because those guys at Green Bay really screwed up when they got Rogers when Favre was firmly the teams QB. QB is the one position I don't want to see play there first year or two in the league.

I have never hated Jake I hate his play. One year I could honestly say he one us most of our games 04 when we were without Smith but he made to the pro-bowl. Since then it has slowly started to turn the other way were the rest of the team have to win in spite of him instead of because of him. This is almost exactly the same situation the Bears where in with Grossman. No matter the evidence to the contrary he kept starting because they got to the SB with him. This is Fox and Hurney going down with the ship. And good riddance if you ask me.

2008 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College Atlanta Falcons

1 18 Joe Flacco QB Delaware Baltimore Ravens

2 56 Brian Brohm QB Louisville Green Bay Packers

2 57 Chad Henne QB Michigan Miami Dolphins

3 94 Kevin O'Connell QB San Diego State New England Patriots

2007 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State Oakland Raiders

1 22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame Cleveland Browns

2 36 Kevin Kolb QB Houston Philadelphia Eagles

2 40 John Beck QB Brigham Young Miami Dolphins

2 43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State Detroit Lions

3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford Buffalo Bills

2006 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 3 Vince Young QB Texas Tennessee Titans

1 10 Matt Leinart QB USC Arizona Cardinals

1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt Denver Broncos

2 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon New York Jets

2 64 Tarvaris Jackson QB Alabama State Minnesota Vikings

3 81 Charlie Whitehurst QB Clemson San Diego Chargers

3 85 Brodie Croyle QB Alabama Kansas City Chiefs

2005 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers

1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California Green Bay Packers

1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn Washington Redskins

3 67 Charlie Frye QB Akron Cleveland Browns

3 69 Andrew Walter QB Arizona State Oakland Raiders

3 85 David Greene QB Georgia Seattle Seahawks

2004 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers

1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State New York Giants

1 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio) Pittsburgh Steelers

1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills

3 90 Matt Schaub QB Virginia Atlanta Falcons

2003 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 Carson Palmer QB USC Cincinnati Bengals

1 7 Byron Leftwich QB Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars

1 19 Kyle Boller QB California Baltimore Ravens

1 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears

3 88 Dave Ragone QB Louisville Houston Texans

3 97 Chris Simms QB Texas Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2002 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State Houston Texans

1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon Detroit Lions

1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane Washington Redskins

3 81 Josh McCown QB Sam Houston State Arizona Cardinals

39 day 1 draft picks - most from teams disparate for a QB - most of those QBs well out of reach for the Panthers.

[Cyberjag]

Ever wonder how on earth Rosario emerged as a receiving threat? I mean, since Jake never throws to anyone but Smitty it's almost shocking, isn't it?

Haters have always found a reason to hate, and now that Jake is really playing poorly they get to come out of the woodwork and claim they were right all along. But they remain full of poo. None of them ever have a viable alternative other than "Start Weinke/Carr/Moore!!!" or make some cockamamie trade that no team in the league would entertain. Sure Jake is sucking now, but that doesn't mean idiots who've been calling for his head for years have been right all along, it just means that he's sucking right now. A broken watch is right twice a day, and the same principle applies.

The Panthers need to find a QB who can play. I would love to trade for Josh Johnson or Kevin Kolb, but we probably won't get either. Jason Campbell will be a UFA in 2010, he would be great in our system. I would even take Brady Quinn. They just need to get someone on the bench NOW who can be trusted to develop into a quality NFL starter. Not necessarily a star, but a quality starter like Jake once was. I think they'll do that soon, either through a trade or by drafting one high this year.

In the meantime, Davidson has to stop trying to get Delhomme into his game by starting him out with long passes and calling so many plays over the middle. What's wrong with getting the ball to Smith on a screen pass and seeing what might develop? Henning did that all the time, never seemed to hurt. And why not throw more out patterns? If you overthrow one of those the ball sails out of bounds. Why haven't the Panthers thrown to their backs more? The few times they have we've looked pretty good.

Those are all fairly high percentage plays that could get a certain someone a little confidence back. And that could lead to a resurgence of brilliant mediocrity, which would look like Peyton Manning to Panther fans right now.

[natty]

Im not sure what you're getting at.

In the first post I was addressing your statement "No matter how much evidence to the contrary, Jake haters are saying they saw this all along."

In the second post I was addressing your statement "Anyone who says they saw this coming is simply wrong."

Ive noticed his bad mechanics all along. After his worst season last year, I knew he was going to be a flop this season.

I beg to differ on this....I for one have been quite vocal about my hate of Jake (the player you spineless ninnies not the person) for many moons. The nut huggers can back me up on this.

The main point it 'despite evidence to the contrary'. I too was pessimistic in the offseason but I think it's a stretch for anyone to know this was coming.

There's a difference between not liking the guy and 'knowing' that he'd have this epic flop.

[KillerKat]

2008 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 3 Matt Ryan QB Boston College Atlanta Falcons

1 18 Joe Flacco QB Delaware Baltimore Ravens

2 56 Brian Brohm QB Louisville Green Bay Packers

2 57 Chad Henne QB Michigan Miami Dolphins

3 94 Kevin O'Connell QB San Diego State New England Patriots

2007 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State Oakland Raiders

1 22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame Cleveland Browns

2 36 Kevin Kolb QB Houston Philadelphia Eagles

2 40 John Beck QB Brigham Young Miami Dolphins

2 43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State Detroit Lions

3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford Buffalo Bills

2006 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 3 Vince Young QB Texas Tennessee Titans

1 10 Matt Leinart QB USC Arizona Cardinals

1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt Denver Broncos

2 49 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon New York Jets

2 64 Tarvaris Jackson QB Alabama State Minnesota Vikings

3 81 Charlie Whitehurst QB Clemson San Diego Chargers

3 85 Brodie Croyle QB Alabama Kansas City Chiefs

2005 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 Alex Smith QB Utah San Francisco 49ers

1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California Green Bay Packers

1 25 Jason Campbell QB Auburn Washington Redskins

3 67 Charlie Frye QB Akron Cleveland Browns

3 69 Andrew Walter QB Arizona State Oakland Raiders

3 85 David Greene QB Georgia Seattle Seahawks

2004 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 Eli Manning QB Mississippi San Diego Chargers

1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State New York Giants

1 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (Ohio) Pittsburgh Steelers

1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills

3 90 Matt Schaub QB Virginia Atlanta Falcons

2003 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 Carson Palmer QB USC Cincinnati Bengals

1 7 Byron Leftwich QB Marshall Jacksonville Jaguars

1 19 Kyle Boller QB California Baltimore Ravens

1 22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears

3 88 Dave Ragone QB Louisville Houston Texans

3 97 Chris Simms QB Texas Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2002 - QB

Rd Sel # Player Position School Team

1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State Houston Texans

1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon Detroit Lions

1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane Washington Redskins

3 81 Josh McCown QB Sam Houston State Arizona Cardinals

39 day 1 draft picks - most from teams disparate for a QB - most of those QBs well out of reach for the Panthers.

Joe Flacco sure was available last season. I know Stewart has played well, but picking him was more out of luxury. We needed a QB behind Jake and the FO blew it. We could've had Flacco and Otah. However, there is this thing where Fox can't develop QBs. Whether or not Flacco could overcome that is debateable. But at least it would show the FO is competant and address a problem that sticks out like a sore thumb on this team.

[jramsey4]

39 day 1 draft picks - most from teams disparate for a QB - most of those QBs well out of reach for the Panthers.

None of those guys are out of reach if our FO is serious about a future at QB. Last year was a perfect opportunity to pick Flaco. Jake was coming off a big injury no one knew how it would affect him. Even knowing that the injury was a non-factor everyone knew that Jake had maybe 2 or 3 years left in him anyway (ala Favre when they got Rogers). I would rather be looking at Flaco/Otah then Stew/Otah right know. With the depth at RB in last years draft IMO that would have been the far better pick but thats just me.

[KillerKat]

The main point it 'despite evidence to the contrary'. I too was pessimistic in the offseason but I think it's a stretch for anyone to know this was coming.

There's a difference between not liking the guy and 'knowing' that he'd have this epic flop.

Like its been pointed out twice in this thread. We hate his play, not him as a person. I can only speak for myself, but I KNEW this was going to happen. The evidence from the previous season convinced me that he would have a terrible year this season.

[jramsey4]

Ever wonder how on earth Rosario emerged as a receiving threat? I mean, since Jake never throws to anyone but Smitty it's almost shocking, isn't it?

Haters have always found a reason to hate, and now that Jake is really playing poorly they get to come out of the woodwork and claim they were right all along. But they remain full of poo. None of them ever have a viable alternative other than "Start Weinke/Carr/Moore!!!" or make some cockamamie trade that no team in the league would entertain. Sure Jake is sucking now, but that doesn't mean idiots who've been calling for his head for years have been right all along, it just means that he's sucking right now. A broken watch is right twice a day, and the same principle applies.

The Panthers need to find a QB who can play. I would love to trade for Josh Johnson or Kevin Kolb, but we probably won't get either. Jason Campbell will be a UFA in 2010, he would be great in our system. I would even take Brady Quinn. They just need to get someone on the bench NOW who can be trusted to develop into a quality NFL starter. Not necessarily a star, but a quality starter like Jake once was. I think they'll do that soon, either through a trade or by drafting one high this year.

In the meantime, Davidson has to stop trying to get Delhomme into his game by starting him out with long passes and calling so many plays over the middle. What's wrong with getting the ball to Smith on a screen pass and seeing what might develop? Henning did that all the time, never seemed to hurt. And why not throw more out patterns? If you overthrow one of those the ball sails out of bounds. Why haven't the Panthers thrown to their backs more? The few times they have we've looked pretty good.

Those are all fairly high percentage plays that could get a certain someone a little confidence back. And that could lead to a resurgence of brilliant mediocrity, which would look like Peyton Manning to Panther fans right now.

Rosario has been horribly inconsistent in terms of production the last two years. Jake just doesn't emphasize the TE like he should. He would be awesome with Brees or Manning as his QB. Its hard to become a great receiver when you only get the ball thrown your way 3 or 4 times a game (a lot of those this year have even been TD's).

For the record Josh Johnson will be a good QB in a year or two. He showed me some very good things yesterday I just wish the Panthers had listened to me and drafted him in the first place.

[natty]

Flacco is the only one I think the FO fuged up on. But hindsight is 20-20. Remember, at that time no one thought Deangelo could be an every down back and Fox/Hurney were on the hot seat and absolutely had to win.

[jramsey4]

Flacco is the only one I think the FO f**ked up on. But hindsight is 20-20. Remember, at that time no one thought Deangelo could be an every down back and Fox/Hurney were on the hot seat and absolutely had to win.

In hindsight he might never have developed in our system who knows. They could have also gotten Rogers when he fell a couple years ago. But I would rather have Flaco as Rogers I think he fits our system better.

[natty]

Like its been pointed out twice in this thread. We hate his play, not him as a person. I can only speak for myself, but I KNEW this was going to happen. The evidence from the previous season convinced me that he would have a terrible year this season.

I was talking about his play too. I know he's liked as a person.

I just don't buy that you could look back to last year to find evidence that he'd play like this. Looking back now, after he has stunk up the field, you can spot some possible evidence going back to the green bay game. But there was little to no indication that he wouldn't bounce back from the Arizona game. Because he always had bounced back.

[TrueBlackandBlue]

None of those guys are out of reach if our FO is serious about a future at QB. Last year was a perfect opportunity to pick Flaco. Jake was coming off a big injury no one knew how it would affect him. Even knowing that the injury was a non-factor everyone knew that Jake had maybe 2 or 3 years left in him anyway (ala Favre when they got Rogers). I would rather be looking at Flaco/Otah then Stew/Otah right know. With the depth at RB in last years draft IMO that would have been the far better pick but thats just me.

Even though Jake has played awful, Im glad we picked Stew. I prefer that our team is based around our running game. I attribute a lot of the success of our running game to having two premier backs. It was much more frustrating not having a consistent running game. That's the backbone of our team and always will be. Taking a high qb is a HUGE risk both financially and whether the player will be able to play qb in the NFL at all. Let's see where this season goes I think after seeing a good day on the ground Sunday should be encouraging for the whole offense. Jake will be a much more consistent qb if teams are forced to handle our running attack first.

Finally, I like Jake because of the success he has brought to this franchise. I don't know him as a person. He seems nice though. But I obviously couldn't expect him to be good forever. So of course people saw this coming. He's getting old. Players get old and start to suck. Either his good seasons are finally over, or nearing their end. We need a qb for the future. I am not convinced however, that throwing in a new guy now is the answer. I am hopeful Jake will get it together and hopefully make a run at the playoffs overcoming a tough schedule.

[jramsey4]

Even though Jake has played awful, Im glad we picked Stew. I prefer that our team is based around our running game. I attribute a lot of the success of our running game to having two premier backs. It was much more frustrating not having a consistent running game. That's the backbone of our team and always will be. Taking a high qb is a HUGE risk both financially and whether the player will be able to play qb in the NFL at all. Let's see where this season goes I think after seeing a good day on the ground Sunday should be encouraging for the whole offense. Jake will be a much more consistent qb if teams are forced to handle our running attack first.

Football is a team sport no one player can or should have to carry a team. A offense should have balance which flew out the window the second we drafted Stewart. We had the same gameplan for almost 16 games then when we get to the playoffs the Cards don't have to be genius to figure out how to stop us. And you are ignoring the Steve Slaytons and Hightowers of last years drafts. RB's who helped there teams out that were drafted in the second day. If you are going to run a 2 back system both guys don't need to be superstars to make it work they just need to mesh well together.