Is having a #1 WR overrated in the modern NFL?

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Does he have a ring?

Terrible argument. Football is probably the ultimate team sport. To knock an individual player, especially a non-QB for lacking a ring is just weak. Julio Jones doesn't have one, Megatron doesn't have one, DeAndre Hopkins doesn't have one. That doesn't mean that they aren't great WRs.

[pantherclaw]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Terrible argument. Football is probably the ultimate team sport. To knock an individual player, especially a non-QB for lacking a ring is just weak. Julio Jones doesn't have one, Megatron doesn't have one, DeAndre Hopkins doesn't have one. That doesn't mean that they aren't great WRs.

Never said they weren't great receivers. Simmer down.

[Mr. Scot]

35 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Thats a horrible argument. Only 2 D.E's were taken in the first round this year. Does that mean the league is devaluing them?

Number 1 receivers are not being devalued at all. They are actually increasing in value. Supply and Demand. Every team has a number 1 receiver by default but that does not mean they have the talent to be a universal number 1. 

NFL Draft trend emerging

Bucky Brooks covers how receivers are being devalued. Teams no longer need to take a receiver high in the draft to get production.

Teams in so-called"passing league" pass on receivers

The Sporting News analyzes the fact that even some teams who had a huge need at receiver still waited until the later rounds.

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

Give me a time period and I can probably dig up that data.

i'd like to see that.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

NFL Draft trend emerging

Bucky Brooks covers how receivers are being devalued. Teams no longer need to take a receiver high in the draft to get production.

Teams in so-called"passing league" pass on receivers

The Sporting News analyzes the fact that even some teams who had a huge need at receiver still waited until the later rounds.

And that would largely be following the trend that you also saw in RB's. The "value" of those guys as first round picks just didn't match up, especially when so many productive backs(and WR's) can be found in later rounds.

It also locks then into substantial deals, as well. For instance, Christian McCaffery is currently has the eighth highest contract value(5th highest guaranteed money) contract in the league, as a rookie. In fact, of the top five contracts by guaranteed money, three are players on their rookie deal(Fournette, Elliot, CMC). So taking a guy that high in the draft certainly skews the market. 

Eventually the WR market may reach that point. Time will tell.

 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, rayzor said:

i'd like to see that.

If I had to guess, I would bet that 100+ reception receivers have gone down on average but 1000+ yard receivers have actually increased.

Just give me a period of time and I can dig that data up. 1990-2017? 2000-2017? What do you think would give a good data set. IMO, we need to at least incorporate part of the periods of time that power rushing attacks were more in vogue.

[panther4life]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

NFL Draft trend emerging

Bucky Brooks covers how receivers are being devalued. Teams no longer need to take a receiver high in the draft to get production.

Teams in so-called"passing league" pass on receivers

The Sporting News analyzes the fact that even some teams who had a huge need at receiver still waited until the later rounds.

I read the Bucky Brooks article. He just said teams are saying you can find receivers outside of the first round, so you don't have to reach for them.

If you follow the money trail then you can see that WR's are not being devalued. The same can not be said for RB, which is what the whole conversation is about.  

 

5

 

Wide receiver: $1.6 million 

Wide receivers are sometimes labeled as divas or ball hogs who get upset when passes don’t come their way. That’s hardly the case, and they’re more important now than ever before. The prototypical receiver has become bigger, faster and more precise in route running, exemplified by a guy like Julio Jones or A.J. Green.

There are also smaller receivers like Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham Jr., who win with quickness, speed and the ability to get open with ease. Regardless of which type your team has as its No. 1 receiver, it’s a very important position despite the false stereotypes that come with being a wideout.

Getty Images Getty Images

 https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-position-importance-ranking-value-every-player-053117

It's a holiday and I am not bored enough to argue back and forth with you on this. So it sounds like we will have to agree to disagree. Have a good day!

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, panther4life said:

I read the Bucky Brooks article. He just said teams are saying you can find receivers outside of the first round, so you don't have to reach for them.

If you follow the money trail then you can see that WR's are not being devalued. The same can not be said for RB, which is what the whole conversation is about.  

 

5

 

Wide receiver: $1.6 million 

Wide receivers are sometimes labeled as divas or ball hogs who get upset when passes don’t come their way. That’s hardly the case, and they’re more important now than ever before. The prototypical receiver has become bigger, faster and more precise in route running, exemplified by a guy like Julio Jones or A.J. Green.

There are also smaller receivers like Antonio Brown and Odell Beckham Jr., who win with quickness, speed and the ability to get open with ease. Regardless of which type your team has as its No. 1 receiver, it’s a very important position despite the false stereotypes that come with being a wideout.

Getty Images Getty Images

 https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-position-importance-ranking-value-every-player-053117

It's a holiday and I am not bored enough to argue back and forth with you on this. So it sounds like we will have to agree to disagree. Have a good day!

Drafting players lower = devaluing

It's the same definition we've used to talk about the runningback position for the past several years.

[panther4life]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Drafting players lower = devaluing

It's the same definition we've used to talk about the runningback position for the past several years.

I prefer to follow the money trail. WR's have the third highest franchise tag value, behind QB AND DE. 

Just out of curiosity, how would you rank NFL positions by value? 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Drafting players lower = devaluing

It's the same definition we've used to talk about the runningback position for the past several years.

Well, it's not the complete picture, in fairness. There is also the overall contract value for active players, as well. If you look at the RB market, it is pretty obvious that a large part of the money has moved out of that market. I don't think that the data would support that for the WR market quite yet.

[MHS831]

I read the first page of this thread then had to post before leaving.  Forget the league--what about Cam?  In 2015, we did not have a #1 WR and he spread the ball around more effectively than in 2016, when we got the #1 WR back.

I think we need a variety of skill sets that can create a variety of matchup problems.  If you want to understand what offenses are doing, look at what defenses are doing.  Jackson is a very fast CB who can cover all over the field.  Gaulden is a college nickel who will play S.  It sure sounds to me that we are going for a variety of skill sets and versatility is important.

 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, panther4life said:

I prefer to follow the money trail. WR's have the third highest franchise tag value, behind QB AND DE. 

Currently, but will that continue?

Right now, some teams are overpaying proven receivers because they don't want to have to train unproven ones.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, it's not the complete picture, in fairness. There is also the overall contract value for active players, as well. If you look at the RB market, it is pretty obvious that a large part of the money has moved out of that market. I don't think that the data would support that for the WR market quite yet.

But there's another aspect as well.

The teams that have had a lot of success (championship level) in recent years are teams that haven't had a "#1 receiver". Lord knows the Patriots don't.

The more teams that win without one, the lower the value's going to be.

[panther4life]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Currently, but will that continue?

Right now, some teams are overpaying proven receivers because they don't want to have to train unproven ones.

I think so. Its a passing league. Every team builds around the idea of passing the ball and defending the passing game.  

This is why pass rushing DT's get paid more than Run stuffing DT's.