PFF Says the likes of Dak Prescott, Marcus Mariota, and Tyrod Taylor + 2 more are better running quarterbacks than Cam

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Has any other QB in the last decade been their team's primary running threat? Cam has been ours more often than not. End of discussion. Cam will likely end his career as the leading all time rushing QB. He's aalready #1 by a long shot in TDs and he's #3 in yardage passing Steve Young last year and now trailing only Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham. He could potentially pass Cunningham next year. He needs 608 yards to do that. He averages 617. He needs 1790 to pass Vick. That's three average seasons for Cam. Vick averaged 470 yards per season during his career.

Yeah but you are adding criteria that has nothing to do with that graphic at all. It is a rating for the 2017 season alone and it isn't grading primary running threat, nor career accolades(current or projected). 

Also, none of us knows what Cam's rating is by their system either. For all we know, he is #6. If so, BFD. So there might have been players that were slightly more efficient or produced at a high level for longer periods(something PFF says will increase a player's rating). 

That graphic is being too widely interpreted. It's one aspect and in one year. It really isn't a big deal.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but you are adding criteria that has nothing to do with that graphic at all. It is a rating for the 2017 season alone and it isn't grading primary running threat, nor career accolades(current or projected). 

Also, none of us knows what Cam's rating is by their system either. For all we know, he is #6. If so, BFD. So there might have been players that were slightly more efficient or produced at a high level for longer periods(something PFF says will increase a player's rating). 

That graphic is being too widely interpreted. It's one aspect and in one year. It really isn't a big deal.

You're pretty much summing up the primary flaw of PFF's ratings. They're based on an arbitrary system of math based on stats with no ability to account for outside variables. 

 

[GoobyPls]

Lol people still use pff as a reliable source. Outside of Cam, I think Wentz and Alex Smith are also better runners than half those guys on the list

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You're pretty much summing up the primary flaw of PFF's ratings. They're based on an arbitrary system of math based on stats with no ability to account for outside variables. 

 

Yes but that is pretty much the point of their system. They are trying to implement a system that can put a "grade" on things that are not really able to be easily quantified with statistics. I don't know how well they are standardized across their 300+ claimed staff. Nor do I have access to all of it, even if I did pay for it, because I am quite sure they are interested in keeping some of it proprietary as it directly relates to their business model. 

It's not a solely STATISTICS based rating, so it isn't going to be an apples to apples comparison with a lot of the things people are harping on in this thread. Remember, they attempt to assign a number to every single snap the player takes and also adjust for extended periods of better play. That probably would result in some trends that might defy some of the pure statistics. 

I am just a little miffed at the overwhelming overreaction to what is a pretty meaningless thing. If I had to make a pure guess on what caused Cam to not be as highly rated, it is probably that he was not able to sustain a high level of play for extended periods of time BECAUSE he was so heavily utilized in our offense to rush the ball. Also, think about how terrible our play calling has been for quite some time(did we forget Shula-ball already??). You don't think that might impact a ratings system like PFF? 

[saints4lifeagain]

27 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 So Cam can do everything the others can do, and MORE, but some unknown subjective formula states that he is inferior to them. That makes total sense. What was your point again? Because you just said what I did. 

Once again, this doesn't have anything to do with ability. It's a grade for, mostly, yards created. If he picks up a half a yard on 3rd and inches, but doesn't break a tackle or pick up anything significant after contact, that waters down his grade. 

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Stop. At the same point in their careers...

Sacks: Peppers 70.5, Jordan 59.5

Tackles: Peppers 273, Jordan 239

Forced fumbles: Peppers 25, Jordan 9

Cam Jordan is a great player, but prime vs. prime, Peppers was better at everything.

NFL teams don't pay PFF for their analysis, they pay them for their aggregation of stats. Like I said before, for stats PFF is great. For analysis they're trash.

Actually, I wouldn't call their first couple years in the league prime, even though Peppers came in pro ready and an absolute animal, which is one of the reasons why he's one of the GOAT. 

I've never claimed Jordan to have had the better career. I even said, as a pure pass rusher, I'd give it to Peppers. All I said was, at their best seasons, as a 3 down DE, I'd take Cam. And you wouldn't understand that looking at stats or even arbitrary PFF grades. 

[Porn Shop Clerk]

they got no bulge

cam's got bulge

 

[KB_fan]

5 hours ago, saints4lifeagain said:

PFF isn't yards and TDs. If it was, they wouldn't be needed. Forced missed tackles, yards after contact, making the right cut/hitting the right hole, gaining yards that weren't given. All of these things go into their grades. 

3 of those guys had higher YPC. All of them had fewer attempts. Sounds like your guy isn't first, so the grading is wrong lol.

I get what you're saying. But 

1. PFf didn't specify a criteria in their graphic. Without specifying a stat, failure to include Cam is ludicrous.

2. If you're just talking YPC that's fine. I accept and understand that Cam is lower in that category because he has gazillion rushing attempts. 

But, apart from YPC, in terms of what QB has the biggest impact on the game with his running? It's Cam, no question. Isolating one stat can be dangerous. Miss the forest for the trees.

What QB do you turn to to run in for a score when the game is on the line? Cam, every single time.

[tondi]

Its like the third string rb getting into the game and having a fluke 30 yard run before returning to the bench. Looks like a hero statistically (at least according to PFF)  compared to the guy who ran for 150 yards but took 25 carries to do it. 

No doubt about which is more valuable though. 

[2244]

I think the stat is being misinterpreted in this thread. 

The chart shows the passer rating as the QB is releasing the football while running/scrambling. Not rushing yards and the like. 

When Cam does throw after running, he usually plants his feet first, so it’s not surprising he’s not on this list. 

[KB_fan]

2 minutes ago, 2244 said:

I think the stat is being misinterpreted in this thread. 

The chart shows the passer rating as the QB is releasing the football while running/scrambling. Not rushing yards and the like. 

When Cam does throw after running, he usually plants his feet first, so it’s not surprising he’s not on this list. 

This is fair enough. 

But still PFfs headline is terribly misleading.

Best scrambling QB? 

Best running QB ?

Two different things. Cam is the latter. Didn't realize PFf was talking about the former.

Thanks for catching the fine print!

[2244]

Just now, KB_fan said:

This is fair enough. 

But still PFfs headline is terribly misleading.

Best scrambling QB? 

Best running QB ?

Two different things. Cam is the latter. Didn't realize PFf was talking about the former.

Thanks for catching the fine print!

The title of the stat is definitely confusing. I consider Prescott and Taylor to more so be runners than scramblers. 

[JARROD]

Where is PFF headquarters?

Call a couple of some real pipe hitting guys with some whips and chains,...

kidding,..

that’s the last time anyone should quote pff as a credible source,...

im going to post the D to anyone who posts them for anything other than to laugh at their BS.

[saints4lifeagain]

51 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

I get what you're saying. But 

1. PFf didn't specify a criteria in their graphic. Without specifying a stat, failure to include Cam is ludicrous.

2. If you're just talking YPC that's fine. I accept and understand that Cam is lower in that category because he has gazillion rushing attempts. 

But, apart from YPC, in terms of what QB has the biggest impact on the game with his running? It's Cam, no question. Isolating one stat can be dangerous. Miss the forest for the trees.

What QB do you turn to to run in for a score when the game is on the line? Cam, every single time.

It's not a stat. It's their grade. Which, once again, will be diluted for Cam because of a high number of short yardage carries. 

If you have one QB who has 5 carries for 30 yards and one QB with 10 carries for 50 yards, you see one has a much higher workload. The QB with 10 carries may have all of the same spectacular carries that the QB with 5 had, but he also had 2 or 3 carries for 2 or 3 yards, that will naturally dilute his grade. It's just part of it. 

44 minutes ago, 2244 said:

I think the stat is being misinterpreted in this thread. 

The chart shows the passer rating as the QB is releasing the football while running/scrambling. Not rushing yards and the like. 

When Cam does throw after running, he usually plants his feet first, so it’s not surprising he’s not on this list. 

Thats not what it is at all. It's their run grades. 

[kungfoodude]

I am just going to put this here because I think there are some serious misconceptions about what PFF is even trying to do with their grading system. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pff-player-grades

Also, how did anyone get that this was at all a passing statistical ranking?? The graphic is pretty clear about what the grades are related to.