Did we win yesterday or what??

[panthers55]

the thing is, i don't think there's anyone unaware that we're playing uninspired football, yet everyone feels the need to jump up and down and point it out.

It's like if you were visiting a loved one at the hospital trying to be positive but staying realistic and you had a bunch of yahoos screaming "but you don't understand!!! The cancer is advanced!!!! She doesn't have more than a 10% chance to see the end of the month!!!!"

exactly!!!!!!!!

[mountainpantherfan]

Herein lies the major issue...

A lot of us KNOW what this team is capable of talent-wise...

Yet week in and week out, we go out and lay an egg, even if it's a sloppy win...

That is the frustrating thing about this team and organization as a whole.. The refusal to see the obvious because of pride in past success...

I completely agree with you on this. But your last line is what I feel is the most revieling to both sides of this issue. You are also refusing to see the obvious, a win, because of pride in past success.

Like always, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.

[Samuel L. Jackson]

I completely agree with you on this. But your last line is what I feel is the most revieling to both sides of this issue. You are also refusing to see the obvious, a win, because of pride in past success.

Like always, the truth is found somewhere in the middle.

Don't get me wrong... I am pleased with the win... But the way I look at it is that it's just a wrong number calling as you're being strapped into the electric chair... You get a brief repreive, but your fate is inevitable...

[panthers55]

Herein lies the major issue...

A lot of us KNOW what this team is capable of talent-wise...

Yet week in and week out, we go out and lay an egg, even if it's a sloppy win...

That is the frustrating thing about this team and organization as a whole.. The refusal to see the obvious because of pride in past success...

Everyone sees it including Fox. And if anyone thinks he isn't doing everything he can to fix it, they are crazy.

What Fox is simply tired of is all the negativity and constant complaining even when we win. No one is resting on their laurels but so far when one aspect does well another suffers. We haven't been able to get all aspects of the team working at the same time. And Fox knows like anyone does, saying anything to the media just feeds the frenzy and will be used against you at a later date. I wouldn't even speak to the media unless I had to and I expect he feels the same way.

[Samuel L. Jackson]

Not so...

[panthers55]

Don't get me wrong... I am pleased with the win... But the way I look at it is that it's just a wrong number calling as you're being strapped into the electric chair... You get a brief repreive, but your fate is inevitable...

At this point we aren't even on death's row let alone the chair. Way too soon to be saying anything. With the exception of one ill-advised throw and a break down in coverage yesterday, things went fairly decent. Certainly nothing to throw in the towel yet.

[mountainpantherfan]

Don't get me wrong... I am pleased with the win... But the way I look at it is that it's just a wrong number calling as you're being strapped into the electric chair... You get a brief repreive, but your fate is inevitable...

Great analogy!

I also think for many, including myself, we still want to look at the negatives more than the positives because we want Fox, Delhomme and Hurney gone. If we don't find something to complain about it feels like we are supporting them in our celebration of the win.

I think the frustration on this board and among fans in general has reached at point that they would rather see the Panthers loss so Fox is gaurenteed to be fired than to see them win and Fox possibly get a repreive from the governer only to see the season still get electricuted.

[Claws]

I'm glad somebody said it.

I thought this last nite and just didn't start a new thread. We won guys! Sheesh, lol - that's a positive right?

[Zod]

Yes, we won despite Jake and the Special Teams. Thats a real accomplishment, we should definitely be happy!

[Samuel L. Jackson]

At this point we aren't even on death's row let alone the chair. Way too soon to be saying anything. With the exception of one ill-advised throw and a break down in coverage yesterday, things went fairly decent. Certainly nothing to throw in the towel yet.

John, you should be discussing what to do about Jake and not posting here...

Seriously though... As long as Jake remains the starter, and nothing is done to improve what is wrong with our team INTERNALLY, then we won't be doing any better than 6-10 or 7-9 this season...

Not facing that reality is doing nothing but harm to your fan-dom...

[Udogg]

I agree with Panther55. Also, I can't for the life of me understand why people are expecting blowout wins. It hardly ever happens no matter how much better we are than the other team. I mean really, how many teams in the last 5 years have we blown out? Our style doesn't cater to those types of wins.

I recommend everyone TIVO the games and then watch them again after the emotion has died down. The passing game is more than Jake throwing the ball.

Lets look at them:

1. Jake missing some reads, poor accuracy and locking on to receivers.

2. No separation by the receivers on passing routes. Mushin is getting press covered all day because no one worries about him beating them deep.

3. Poor play calling. We need to scrap some tendencies in certain situations and run some altered routes.

4. Poor pass protection. Our line blocked slightly better than last week, but look at Tom Brady's pocket and look at Jake's pocket.

5. No speed at receiver position. Other than SS and maybe rosario there are no mismatches on the field. That leads to shifted coverages.

I think it's a total team failure in the passing game and hopefully we can work it out.

[CatMan72]

Yup, despite our best efforts we won - we beat the Bucs who are the "Washington Generals" of the NFL right now.

During the course of our "glorious" victory yesterday, we spotted them 14 points and had to become totally one-dimensional to hide our QB so we could beat them. If we were playing a decent opponent the way we played the Bucs yesterday, I feel fairly confident we would have lost.

[rayzor]

Everyone sees it including Fox. And if anyone thinks he isn't doing everything he can to fix it, they are crazy.

What Fox is simply tired of is all the negativity and constant complaining even when we win. No one is resting on their laurels but so far when one aspect does well another suffers. We haven't been able to get all aspects of the team working at the same time. And Fox knows like anyone does, saying anything to the media just feeds the frenzy and will be used against you at a later date. I wouldn't even speak to the media unless I had to and I expect he feels the same way.

i really don't think they are doing everything they can do to win. they are doing everything they want to and hoping that it will eventually work. i honestly don't believe that the playcalling and/or jake is going to put this team over the top. i'm not sure what it is but there is ssomething very wrong with the passing game. opposing players have been saying for weeks that they know what the team is going to be doing, that it is predictable. fans have been noticing this. now moose is starting to notice something and say something about it. this was in one of reed's columns from yesterday...

After the game he tried to shed some light on the problem, saying opponents seem to be getting tipped off to the Panthers passing plays.

And, obviously when a defense knows a pass is coming, it’s easier to defend.

“From what I’ve been seeing defenses are dropping a lot more guys into coverage and, I don’t know if it’s based on our formations, or the quarterback’s drop or what kind of keys they’re getting, but the safeties have typically been reading and then trying to drop back into coverage and reading pass,” Muhammad said.

“Something is giving them a pass key and they are just double-teaming the pass. It doesn’t always start off like Cover 2, but it winds up in Cover 2 or some sort of man with Cover 2, that kind of thing.”

That’s a problem good coaches will figure out eventually.

link

that last sentence is the kicker. people have been saying that for a good while but still they have their tells.

is it jake or the playcalling? i think both are creatures of habit. they make a change or find something that works and then they keep doing it over and over and over thinking that since it worked once or twice that they can keep doing it every game.

whatever the problem is, they need to fix it.

my hope is not that they can just beat the easy teams...my hope is that they become dominant. i don't care who is throwing the ball or coaching the team...i just want to win. if they can't get the job done, get someone who can.

right now they aren't going to get it done with the liabilities that they have. they are improving but there is a whole lot more that they need to fix before they can be deemed respectable.

i just want them better and overlooking the bad stuff....i just can't do it.

i like that they re-established the run yesterday. i like that the defense looked much better and that hollis thomas is on the scene, that hayden was inactive, and that peppers is really kicking it in high gear. i want to see it against a good offense but right now i'm just happy that the redskins and bucs didn't make the defense look bad.

we still had to forge a comeback because of that pick6 and the return for a touchdown. we still have huge problems on special teams and in the passing game.

i want those problems fixed. i want the panthers to be the best and to be competitive against the falcons and the saints. i don't want those dogs to have their day. the panthers, the way they have played this year, aren't going to be able to stop the falcons and saints and aren't going to be getting into the playoffs.

i'm pissed that this team isn't better. i'm pissed that this team has put themselves in some bad situations and that it took them this long to even see what the problems are.

i don't think that they will do what needs to be done if that means switching out the QB or firing crossman and getting someone her who knows something about special teams. i don't think that fox has the guts to do it.

he used to but now he's just hoping that what he has done in the past will work. he is timid. that won't win games anymore. i hope he proves me wrong. i just have very little faith that he will.

[panthers55]

Yes, we won despite Jake and the Special Teams. Thats a real accomplishment, we should definitely be happy!

Anytime you win on the road in the NFl it is an accomplishment. Just ask Philly.