Why haven't we signed Tre Boston Yet?

[*FreeFua*]

Just like Captain Munnerlyn, he’s garbage. 

Not sure what it is with this fan base and player reuinions... maybe if you guys watched other teams play more you’d know there are other players out there.

[Peppers90 NC]

man a year ago most people were so glad he was released.

[Toomers]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Let's clarify one thing:

It is true that Ron Rivera doesn't put a high value and safeties. That doesn't mean he thinks they're useless.

Rivera is one of those coaches who's a bigger believer in pass rush than coverage. Because of that, he's always going to devote greater resources to the front seven. The fact that we now have a line coach running our defense probably doesn't change any of that.

 Yep. Safeties. And it’s held us back for his entire tenure. 

  Look at the main difference between Our DEF and SEA from 2012-2016. SEA was the best DEF every year but one. We were inconsistent but very good at times. While we trotted out every retread in the league, SEA had Earl Thomas and Kam Channcellor.  Basically ignoring 2 positions and hoping for the best just isn’t smart. I can understand a value argument against taking one too high, but after the first round that shouldn’t matter.

[BigSyke]

45 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

I’m fine with them running them out of the league for that.

keep your politics out of my sports!

 

not if reid could help win a sb. i wouldn't care.

its only about football.

also if players did  that outside of football people would still be mad. look at cam...he did an interview on another platform about politics and people still cared about it and made it a big thing. always do and always will.

 

[MHS831]

9 hours ago, PanthersAlv said:

Does he still have tackling issues? 

 

Asking for a friend. 

Nope.  Since 2016, Boston has been tackle free.

[Moo Daeng]

 

51 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

I’m fine with them running them out of the league for that.

keep your politics out of my sports!

It's not yours

[TheCasillas]

28 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 Yep. Safeties. And it’s held us back for his entire tenure. 

  Look at the main difference between Our DEF and SEA from 2012-2016. SEA was the best DEF every year but one. We were inconsistent but very good at times. While we trotted out every retread in the league, SEA had Earl Thomas and Kam Channcellor.  Basically ignoring 2 positions and hoping for the best just isn’t smart. I can understand a value argument against taking one too high, but after the first round that shouldn’t matter.

That defense was not great bc of a "safety."

Quick breakdown:

Earl Thomas was their field general - he was tasked with reading the offense and placing the defense in the right position. So this required him to play closer to the line than a FS would do in our defense. They also play zone defense heavily in that system. They ran quarter deeps and 3-deep. This allowed Earl to move around more freely upon the snap. Essentially Earl was their MLB. This allowed Bobby Wagner (2012 and on) to focus more on positional awareness rather than aligning the defense. Everything runs through Earl.

Now another interesting tid bit you may not be accounting for while attempting to compare our defenses. Sherman. He allowed the Seahawks to execute the perfect 3 man zone by taking away an entire portion of the field. His size, speed, strength, and awareness really contributed to the success of that defense. Offenses had to work with 66% of the field instead of the full 100%. 

 

To your argument the key you are missing is that it wasn't a safety that made the difference for their defense, it was a scheme that allowed them to maximize the talents of particular players. Earl couldn't do here, what he does there, because we already have a commander on D, and we run a cover 2 style defense (everything in front of you) which isn't Earl's strong suit.

[Toomers]

8 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

That defense was not great bc of a "safety."

Quick breakdown:

Earl Thomas was their field general - he was tasked with reading the offense and placing the defense in the right position. So this required him to play closer to the line than a FS would do in our defense. They also play zone defense heavily in that system. They ran quarter deeps and 3-deep. This allowed Earl to move around more freely upon the snap. Essentially Earl was their MLB. This allowed Bobby Wagner (2012 and on) to focus more on positional awareness rather than aligning the defense. Everything runs through Earl.

Now another interesting tid bit you may not be accounting for while attempting to compare our defenses. Sherman. He allowed the Seahawks to execute the perfect 3 man zone by taking away an entire portion of the field. His size, speed, strength, and awareness really contributed to the success of that defense. Offenses had to work with 66% of the field instead of the full 100%. 

 

To your argument the key you are missing is that it wasn't a safety that made the difference for their defense, it was a scheme that allowed them to maximize the talents of particular players. Earl couldn't do here, what he does there, because we already have a commander on D, and we run a cover 2 style defense (everything in front of you) which isn't Earl's strong suit.

  We played more cover 3, very similar to SEA, than anything else under McDermott. And the reason they are good is Earl Thomas, for all the reasons you mentioned. We can’t ask a Safety to do the things he does because we will not invest in a player of that caliber. (#14 overall)  Do you really think he wouldn’t have been effective in any defensive scheme? Now that’s a major reach. 

   Where else was the major difference? Sherman being more consistent over time than Norman is it. It sure isn’t the front 7. We’ve been just as strong, if not stronger since 2013. 

[TheCasillas]

26 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  We played more cover 3, very similar to SEA, than anything else under McDermott. And the reason they are good is Earl Thomas, for all the reasons you mentioned. We can’t ask a Safety to do the things he does because we will not invest in a player of that caliber. (#14 overall)  Do you really think he wouldn’t have been effective in any defensive scheme? Now that’s a major reach. 

   Where else was the major difference? Sherman being more consistent over time than Norman is it. It sure isn’t the front 7. We’ve been just as strong, if not stronger since 2013. 

in 2016 (McDermott was defensive coordinator), we had 1070 snaps on defense. 237 of those were in cover 3. 128 were man coverage.  348 snaps were cover 2. We may have played some cover 3 ( but more cover 4 than 3), but we were not a cover 3 defense like the Seahawks, who ran mainly cover 3. We are a cover 2 defense under Rivera (see link below)

https://www.patspulpit.com/2017/9/29/16350138/a-guide-to-beating-the-carolina-panthers-defense-and-the-tampa-2

 

I never said Earl wouldn't "be effective." I said it would not be his strong suit. Asking a player of his size to stay back and read the play and rotate the direction of the play, is something we haven't seen Thomas do play after play. Coleman did this for us and as soon as Norman left, you saw a huge difference in performance.

Our Tampa 2 is very disciplined, and being out of position is risky. Earl had freedom to roam in SEA cover 3. If he elected to roam in our defense, well, I can't see that behavior lasting long. 

You are asking for major differences, I feel as if you did not read my original response, bc those are major differences. Sherman and Norman are two different type of corners. Sherman is a space hogging zone corner. Norman is a ball hawking man corner.

I feel as if you are trying to defend as if I am saying our defense is bad, when in reality my point is that in a tampa cover 2 you need an athletic front 7 and a disciplined secondary. The safeties are relegated to simple tasks.

 

[Toomers]

40 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

in 2016 (McDermott was defensive coordinator), we had 1070 snaps on defense. 237 of those were in cover 3. 128 were man coverage.  348 snaps were cover 2. We may have played some cover 3 ( but more cover 4 than 3), but we were not a cover 3 defense like the Seahawks, who ran mainly cover 3. We are a cover 2 defense under Rivera (see link below)

https://www.patspulpit.com/2017/9/29/16350138/a-guide-to-beating-the-carolina-panthers-defense-and-the-tampa-2

 

I never said Earl wouldn't "be effective." I said it would not be his strong suit. Asking a player of his size to stay back and read the play and rotate the direction of the play, is something we haven't seen Thomas do play after play. Coleman did this for us and as soon as Norman left, you saw a huge difference in performance.

Our Tampa 2 is very disciplined, and being out of position is risky. Earl had freedom to roam in SEA cover 3. If he elected to roam in our defense, well, I can't see that behavior lasting long. 

You are asking for major differences, I feel as if you did not read my original response, bc those are major differences. Sherman and Norman are two different type of corners. Sherman is a space hogging zone corner. Norman is a ball hawking man corner.

I feel as if you are trying to defend as if I am saying our defense is bad, when in reality my point is that in a tampa cover 2 you need an athletic front 7 and a disciplined secondary. The safeties are relegated to simple tasks.

 

 And I’m saying the scheme AND the players are the problem. We don’t even attempt to upgrade be give them actual responsibility instead of “simple tasks”. 

 And how about posting those same stats for 2015. I’m speaking of an extended period of time. Not one year. We’ve clearly played plenty of both. Doesn’t change the FACT that there was a large difference in talent and production from the Safety position. 

[TheCasillas]

22 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 And I’m saying the scheme AND the players are the problem. We don’t even attempt to upgrade be give them actual responsibility instead of “simple tasks”. 

 And how about posting those same stats for 2015. I’m speaking of an extended period of time. Not one year. We’ve clearly played plenty of both. Doesn’t change the FACT that there was a large difference in talent and production from the Safety position. 

Dude, you go do the research, you have obviously done none. The article I sent in my previous post talks about Panthers being a Tampa Cover 2 since 2011, that should be enough info for you. THAT'S AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

You were not saying the scheme and players are the problem. You were saying that the Seahawks are a better defense because they focus on safety position. You specifically mention Earl T. and Kam C. You never mentioned wagner, sherman, bennet, avril, irvin, or mcdaniel. All of those players graded out in the top 10 in their position over the respected years they played for the Seahawks.

The last line tells me you don't understand football schemes. I explicitly explained you would not get the same production out of a safety like Earl in our defense. I don't even think you understood it. I have come to terms that this conversation is a waste of time.

Edit below:

Ah fug it. You need to learn. here is 2015 article about our cover 2 trap.

https://www.derp/2015/10/8/9477161/carolina-panthers-all-22-film-analysis-josh-norman-in-trap-coverage

[XOBlackxJokerOX]

12 hours ago, Carolina-Chuck18 said:

MIKE MITCHELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

I was done with him after he ruined the NFC Divisional round against the 49ers with stupid penalties. Nope.

[Toomers]

19 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Dude, you go do the research, you have obviously done none. The article I sent in my previous post talks about Panthers being a Tampa Cover 2 since 2011, that should be enough info for you. THAT'S AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME.

You were not saying the scheme and players are the problem. You were saying that the Seahawks are a better defense because they focus on safety position. You specifically mention Earl T. and Kam C. You never mentioned wagner, sherman, bennet, avril, irvin, or mcdaniel. All of those players graded out in the top 10 in their position over the respected years they played for the Seahawks.

The last line tells me you don't understand football schemes. I explicitly explained you would not get the same production out of a safety like Earl in our defense. I don't even think you understood it. I have come to terms that this conversation is a waste of time.

Edit below:

Ah fug it. You need to learn. here is 2015 article about our cover 2 trap.

https://www.derp/2015/10/8/9477161/carolina-panthers-all-22-film-analysis-josh-norman-in-trap-coverage

  So 1 random article that shows they have played both, in ONE year. And a an inferior site article from a guy who hasn’t got a clue. Sure I’m sold. I don’t have to learn coverage on the internet. 

 I didn’t mention those players specifically because I referenced that the front sevens were similar to ours being better at times. Or are you saying those players are significantly better than Luke, TD, KK, etc. And I absolutely am saying it’s the players and lack of even attempting to get this level of Safety.  

   You can call it cover 2 or 3 or whatever makes you feel better. Our Safety play has been below average for the better part of a decade. I simply made a comparison to a DEF that was great for years and had great S play. They are built similar and a run similar schemes( not exact). I could find no difference larger than ability at the S position. Any scheme difference would have to include limitations of the players involved. 

[Isaac]

3 hours ago, Cyberjag said:

I don't understand why so many people seem ignorant of this.  No one is signing Free Agents right now, all the action that I've seen league-wide involves teams re-signing their own players or creating cap room.

Next week at this time we'll start seeing movement.  Until then, threads like this aren't necessary.

Seriously.  There was a thread explaining the calm before the final FA storm regarding Comp formula... I guess people only hear what they want to.