Defensive versatility emerging as a theme

[TheSpecialJuan]

On 4/28/2018 at 7:21 PM, MHS831 said:

We draft D. Jackson who is told he will play nickel and outside, depending on matchups.  Rivera said Bradberry will be used against the bigger WRs, etc.   Jackson is going to take away the other team's speed advantage.  Period.  He is good enough to play outside, inside, etc. but we went after him hard because he has a versatile skill set.

Then we draft Gaulden, who is told he might play CB, nickel, and S.  While I think he is a safety, and maybe they say that so the veterans don't feel threatened, he will be on the field a lot. 

Then we draft Haynes (DE...or is he?) called a DE by Rivera at the presser but he mentioned the Joker position and suggested that he is able to cover TEs in the seam--like a LB.  Personally, I think Haynes is basically going to play the Sam some, DE some, and I think we will stunt him to the QB a lot. 

Get a traditional 4-3 out of your heads.  This defense is going to hunt.  

 

It seems we're going back to our traditional base 4-3 zone defense under Eric Washington and going away from Wilk's heavy blitz D from last year. 

[beastson]

Hopefully it means Ron will be more hands on with the defense. Defensive strategy, personnel and hopefully game planning

[Trev_GFC]

There’s flexibility to us (ability to play different formations with our players) and then there’s flexibility of the players themselves to play different formations.

I like versatile players, and let’s not forget we’ll get injuries. Playing in different positions to your strongest one is part of your development, but I feel by the time you become a pro you should have nailed down a position and a sub-position. Play in your main position unless a situation calls for something different for a one-off play or injury. I don’t want us failing to address positions of need in free agency and the first rounds, and then sticking players out of their best position for half the season.

When talking about our draft picks it seems more that we’re talking about the Panthers being versatile rather than the players. Remember we’re not going to start with ALL of them in the first game. I can see us dabbling with all the secondary when the situation sees fit to, as Bill Voth alluded to. Sticking in Gaulden/Bradberry/Capn/Donte vs a particular player. I don’t think we can say “we’re looking at playing this formation” based on a 5th/6th round pick though.

[The Huddler]

On 4/28/2018 at 11:28 PM, KB_fan said:

Yeah, I'm sick of hearing about Swiss army knives. 

Theres that proverb Jack of all trades master of none....

Really not a fan of the Gaulden pick for this reason.

so you don't like the pick because of some cliche phrase?

 

please tell me more about the DBs that you have watched actual film on and broke down. 

[CKI]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:30 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

We've heard these defensive versatility stories before...

Rivera when he was hired:

[paraphrasing] Our defense will feature aspects of both the 4-3 and 3-4.

Reality:

We've always played a pure 4-3

Rivera after Shaq was drafted:

[paraphrasing] Shaq will give us the versatility to stay in our base defense more often.

Reality:

We played the same way on D and Shaq was simply a backup LB.

Oh, and remember this one:

"Despite his 6-foot-4, 323-pound frame, Butler is considered one of the most versatile defensive linemen in this year's draft. Not only does Gettleman covet big players, but Carolina's coaches prefer guys who can play multiple spots. In his four years at Louisiana Tech, Butler played end, three technique and nose tackle."

http://blackandbluereview.com/panthers-30th-pick-nfl-draft-vernon-butler/

Thread over

[pantherclaw]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:36 PM, MHS831 said:

Maybe he intended to do it but never had the personnel.  Maybe Gettlemen was focused on his molded hog mollies etc..  I do not have faith in RR as a coach, fwiw, but he is older now and really wanted Hurney. I mean, we just drafted a CB who can run a 4.32 when we had been going after the 6--1 4.65 Zone CBs.  We just drafted a 235 lb. DE.   Maybe, just maybe...

Absolutely. Wanting to be a versatile defense, and having the ability to do so are two different things.

So the guys drafted this weekend doesn't surprise me at all, as the team continues to bring in pieces, it adds to what we are capable of doing. 

 

[Devil Doc]

My question is:

We just signed Cockrell and Searcy...

So does this mean that a CB or 3 will get cut, I was under the impression we didnt cut draft picks. 

is this impending doom for Gunter, Doss, Cox, Luke, Pharms and Sanchez? 

Colin Jones, Mike Adams, Captain Munnerlyn, are all 30+ are we going to replace them with Young talent?

Decisions.... Decisions..

[KB_fan]

2 hours ago, The Huddler said:

so you don't like the pick because of some cliche phrase?

 

please tell me more about the DBs that you have watched actual film on and broke down. 

I've never claimed to be a draft expert, and CERTAINLY AM NOT a film evaluator. I hope Gaulden is a good pick and that we can make his versatility work for us.

It just seems to me that we've heard a lot from Panthers coaches in recent years about a number of versatile guys and how much they can help us. Shaq was hyped in this way too...

For the most part, the talk has exceeded the reality. I understand the need, especially playing in the NFC South, but I'm just not sure we've got the coaches who can really bring out the best in a hybrid player, and that we might be better with a more traditional safety. But hopefully that's just my opinion.

I will be quite glad to be proven wrong in my concern.

[poorboysrev]

We'll see how it comes together but I can't help but like that we finally have a db that can keep up with the ted ginn/desean jackson/taylor Gabriel types that have been killing us the last few years. I like that they're finally trying to go with more of a New England/switch it up based on matchups concept... now remains to be seen if they're able to implement it. Isn't Chris Harris from Denver a smaller corner? Joe Haden is 5'11... there have been a lot of corners under 6' that have been probowlers. The safety...well at least it sounds like we drafted one with good coverage skills and our secondary needs attitude again... this team needs it's 2015 swag back

[iamhubby1]

    C'mon folks. Versatility is a good thing. We can switch from Cover2, to Cover3, and back to Cover0 at the drop of a hat. Without having to substitute. You know, to make Offenses have to think, even for a moment. It has the effect of slowing them down, and that is a good thing. When an Offense has to think, mistakes can be made.

 

    If your Defense does the same thing every play. Offenses are going to scheme around you. Being versatile makes them work that much harder.

 

    tl/dr version. Being able to change Defensive formations, without substituting, is yuge.

    

[d-dave]

Honestly, I'll wait and see what happens with our defense.  I'd LOVE to have a defense that does a great job of playing multiple looks because of speed and versatility.  Maybe that's what Washington wants?

Conversely, I completely understand the arguments that it's just more of the same.  Because...well...this has been the line over the past few years.  

We'll just have to wait and see if this becomes a morphing defense that is able to adjust on the fly WELL, or one that lines up and gets beat because guys are trying to make minute adjustments at the last second and play slow.

[grimesgoat]

26 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

I've never claimed to be a draft expert, and CERTAINLY AM NOT a film evaluator. I hope Gaulden is avoid pick and that we can make his versatility work for us.

It just seems to me that we've heard a lot from Panthers coaches in recent years about a number of versatile guys and how much they can help us. Shaq was hyped in this way too...

For the most part, the talk has exceeded the reality. I understand the need, especially playing in the NFC South, but I'm just not sure we've got the coaches who can really bring out the best in a hybrid player, and that we might be better with a more traditional safety. But hopefully that's just my opinion.

I will be quite glad to be proven wrong in my concern.

Not to pick on KB_fan, but I'm baffled at the attitude toward drafting a guy that can help us in numerous positions.  Flexibility should be a strength, not an assumption that a guy must not be very good.

Did you guys look at the your high school sports stud that played football in the fall, basketball in the winter, and baseball in the spring and think - that guy must suck, he can play 3 sports well.  Of course not.

We tried and failed to convert a couple of sub-par players from Dline to Oline (chandler and fua), but surely you guys see this is night and day.  If a dude can line up at safety but fill in at corner in a pinch - that is a strength.  That is roster flexibility.  That allows you to carry an extra guy.  That may allow us to carry 6 DEs to avoid another GM from poaching a practice squad guy.  You should not assume a person cannot be great at two different positions just because he has played 2 different positions in the past.

As far as bringing out the best in a hybrid player - remember who our QB is.  Cam is the ultimate hybrid QB/RB.  And Olsen's been a solid TE/WR hybrid.  I have confidence Norv will get quite a bit out of our latest hybrid - CMC.  Shaq was also a hybrid - having played Safety, LB, and RB in college.  Unfortunately he has not been able to play his primary position because TD keeps hanging around, but eventually he will.  You can see glimmers.  This is the year he gets his chance.  I predict he will start permanently this year in TDs spot and rack up 130 tackles/3-4 ints./5 sacks.

[RumHam]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:36 PM, MHS831 said:

Maybe he intended to do it but never had the personnel.  Maybe Gettlemen was focused on his molded hog mollies etc..  I do not have faith in RR as a coach, fwiw, but he is older now and really wanted Hurney. I mean, we just drafted a CB who can run a 4.32 when we had been going after the 6--1 4.65 Zone CBs.  We just drafted a 235 lb. DE.   Maybe, just maybe...

That's on Hurney. Not on Rivera in drafting these guys. He's going to still execute his gameplan. You guys can talk about getting fancy with these undersized defensive players b/c we were too stupid to address things in FA. Here we are addressing needs in the draft when these should be surplusses. If a guy plays three different positions, he's not an impact player. Maybe we do something different, but like the post above, how different have we ever gotten other than changing offensive coordinators?