Defensive versatility emerging as a theme

[MHS831]

We draft D. Jackson who is told he will play nickel and outside, depending on matchups.  Rivera said Bradberry will be used against the bigger WRs, etc.   Jackson is going to take away the other team's speed advantage.  Period.  He is good enough to play outside, inside, etc. but we went after him hard because he has a versatile skill set.

Then we draft Gaulden, who is told he might play CB, nickel, and S.  While I think he is a safety, and maybe they say that so the veterans don't feel threatened, he will be on the field a lot. 

Then we draft Haynes (DE...or is he?) called a DE by Rivera at the presser but he mentioned the Joker position and suggested that he is able to cover TEs in the seam--like a LB.  Personally, I think Haynes is basically going to play the Sam some, DE some, and I think we will stunt him to the QB a lot. 

Get a traditional 4-3 out of your heads.  This defense is going to hunt.  

 

[LinvilleGorge]

We've heard these defensive versatility stories before...

Rivera when he was hired:

[paraphrasing] Our defense will feature aspects of both the 4-3 and 3-4.

Reality:

We've always played a pure 4-3

Rivera after Shaq was drafted:

[paraphrasing] Shaq will give us the versatility to stay in our base defense more often.

Reality:

We played the same way on D and Shaq was simply a backup LB.

Oh, and remember this one:

"Despite his 6-foot-4, 323-pound frame, Butler is considered one of the most versatile defensive linemen in this year's draft. Not only does Gettleman covet big players, but Carolina's coaches prefer guys who can play multiple spots. In his four years at Louisiana Tech, Butler played end, three technique and nose tackle."

http://blackandbluereview.com/panthers-30th-pick-nfl-draft-vernon-butler/

[Growl]

"emerging" lol

the panthers have been allowing players who can play one position well to pass them by in favor of guys who play a bunch of positions poorly throughout Rivera's entire tenure

[MHS831]

Maybe he intended to do it but never had the personnel.  Maybe Gettlemen was focused on his molded hog mollies etc..  I do not have faith in RR as a coach, fwiw, but he is older now and really wanted Hurney. I mean, we just drafted a CB who can run a 4.32 when we had been going after the 6--1 4.65 Zone CBs.  We just drafted a 235 lb. DE.   Maybe, just maybe...

[MHS831]

11 minutes ago, Growl said:

"emerging" lol

the panthers have been allowing players who can play one position well in favor of guys who play a bunch of positions poorly throughout Rivera's entire tenure

Are things now the same as they were before?  New Owner on the way.  GM who will work with him (do what he wants).  We did not draft a zone CB.  We did not draft a traditional S.  We drafted a Bruce Irvin type 235 lb DE/LB (Joker).

I realize that he has said that in the past, but when have we ever had the personnel to be more than what we were?  Shaq was supposed to help do that some, but we need more parts.  Just a hunch--who knows?

[AU-panther]

32 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Maybe he intended to do it but never had the personnel.  Maybe Gettlemen was focused on his molded hog mollies etc..  I do not have faith in RR as a coach, fwiw, but he is older now and really wanted Hurney. I mean, we just drafted a CB who can run a 4.32 when we had been going after the 6--1 4.65 Zone CBs.  We just drafted a 235 lb. DE.   Maybe, just maybe...

What is wrong with a CB that is relatively fast (4.4) and tall 6'0"?  What are we going to do? Have different starting CBs depending on who we are playing?  How many teams do that?  I'm sure the players and their agents will love that.

 

37 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We've heard these defensive versatility stories before...

Rivera when he was hired:

[paraphrasing] Our defense will feature aspects of both the 4-3 and 3-4.

Reality:

We've always played a pure 4-3

Rivera after Shaq was drafted:

[paraphrasing] Shaq will give us the versatility to stay in our base defense more often.

Reality:

We played the same way on D and Shaq was simply a backup LB.

Oh, and remember this one:

"Despite his 6-foot-4, 323-pound frame, Butler is considered one of the most versatile defensive linemen in this year's draft. Not only does Gettleman covet big players, but Carolina's coaches prefer guys who can play multiple spots. In his four years at Louisiana Tech, Butler played end, three technique and nose tackle."

http://blackandbluereview.com/panthers-30th-pick-nfl-draft-vernon-butler/

Sometimes it feels like we outsmart ourselves.  Cam throws high, lets get tall receivers.  Cam's receivers can't separate, lets draft really fast ones.  Our corners are big and slow.  Lets find some really fast ones that happen to be small.  

The Shaq draft still bugs me.  I think the has the potential to be a good player but we basically drafted him to be a backup in the first round.  He will become a starter once he is expensive.  We could have just signed him as a free agent.

If we used a 2nd round pick on a slot CB so be it.  I can make the argument that your slot is probably more important them a lot of your traditional 22 starters.  I just don't buy this versatility idea they are claiming.  Maybe he becomes our starting outside corner, its not like Revis was much taller.

[KB_fan]

54 minutes ago, Growl said:

"emerging" lol

the panthers have been allowing players who can play one position well to pass them by in favor of guys who play a bunch of positions poorly throughout Rivera's entire tenure

Yeah, I'm sick of hearing about Swiss army knives. 

Theres that proverb Jack of all trades master of none....

Really not a fan of the Gaulden pick for this reason.

[carpanfan96]

Basically Hurney is letting Rivera and his staff dictate the picks. I dont think Gettleman did that or listened to Rivera much to be honest... if so Norman would still be here, coaches loved him the last few years he was here. 

[Cyberjag]

I don't know or care about versatility so much as whether we're better or not.  I think that from last year, we've potentially gotten worse on the line unless Hall emerges.  But last year CJ was invisible, so this year all depends on whether Peppers can duplicate his performance.  Linebacker is a push, maybe we're a little better with our new depth but that's doubtful.  Our secondary though, that almost has to be better.  whoever wins among Jackson/Cockrell/Seymour is going to pair with Bradberry at least as well as, if not much better than Worley.  I can see Jackson's speed really making a difference across from him.  

At Safety, if that amateur youtube scout guy had made a highlight video of Rashaan Gaulden, everyone on this board would be all over themselves talking about the steal we got.  Instead, he was about as anonymous as the best player on the 81st ranked defense is going to be.  He's going to learn from Searcy and Adams early, and will likely be a very solid contributor if not starter late in the season.  Speaking of Searcy, I think he'll be every bit as effective as Coleman was, so in a worst case scenario (assuming Adams has gas in the tank) we've got a push at the Safety position.

Overall, I think it's likely we've improved.  And last year we had the 3rd best defense against the run and 7th overall, by game stats.  It remains to be seen whether Washington is better than Wilks, but we've still got Rivera working with that side of the ball.  So I'm optimistic.

[Jeremy Igo]

The down side here is that when you asked rookie to learn and play more than one position , it usually means excelling at none of them.

[rayzor]

didn't we have a DT playing on the OL a while back? and then there was that one year we traded up and drafted a QB to play WR some people may remember.

he's always tried to be pretty clever. bombed a lot doing it.

[Cyberjag]

10 minutes ago, Jeremy Igo said:

The down side here is that when you asked rookie to learn and play more than one position , it usually means excelling at none of them.

I will be surprised if they put him at nickel with our other talent.  But they surprise me a lot.  

I think he'll be penciled in as a Safety until he shows he can't do it.  That's when they might try and move him around.

[panthers55]

First of all let me say that I really don't like any rookies starting. That is the recipe for mistakes that in our highly accountable defense can be costly. But inevitably you end up relying on a few to contribute or even start.

This draft was about the themes of speed and attitude. Hurney came in and said we were slow and soft. He has consistently picked guys with speed and attitude. He has a lot of faith in our staff to train players to excel in our system.  So he went out and got players with speed and attitude in both free agency and the draft. He knows the NFL is different than college and whatever position you play in the NFL will be based on your abilities and current performance. So you pick players with certain attributes and plug them into your system much like New England does when they move players all around due to injury to other guys. Their players have to be versatile and athletic. We are just doing the same. If a player is a Swiss army knife it means he is smart and athletic enough to play different positions at a high level.  Those type of players can learn their responsibilities in different formations and situations. He accomplished his purpose which is better compete to win the division. How well we play will be more a function of the coaches and players that Hurney. 

[Mr. Scot]

I get what they want to do, but when you consider it, doesn't it sound kinda similar to Rob Ryan's "11 safeties" defensive concept?

That's what bothers me most about the whole thing.