What's up with Moton

[MHS831]

42 minutes ago, Cyberjag said:

 

I don't know why the hell Amini is got the reps he did over Moton, but I'm sure there's a better reason than "RR loves his vets!"  Maybe he knew the plays and did what he was supposed to, while Moton looked good blocking someone when he should have been pulling.  Who knows?  I don't, but I do know that if Moton was not beating out Silatolu, there's a reason and we don't always get to know.

 

This is the enigma we are discussing.  It scares me to know that there is a reason Amini was the best option.  I am full of theories and another unidentified substance.

[heel31ok]

9 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I read earlier where LG seems to be starting with Silatolu. Yet I thought we drafted Moton with the idea we would be losing Norwell, which we did.

So the question is?  Is he not as good as we thought he was and is going to have to beat Silatolu out.  

Or is he going to compete for LT.  From what I have read Matt Kalil was the LT.  

So what is it?

Where might we read that ?

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, Seoul_Panther said:

Except that everything they say and do says otherwise. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t MKalil’s restructure make him basically uncuttable until after 2019? He hasn’t been used as LT or RT but has seen some usage in the jumbo package on the interior. 

  On the long Stewart TD vs Vikings he was the extra man allowing Norwell to make the key block to spring the play.

We can get rid of Kalil after this season with a big dead cap hit but as you note it will be the difference between 14 million in 2019 versus 9 million in 2020. So as a June 1 cut it will be more manageable but still will hurt either way. But if he doesn't play better this year do we pay that much money as essentially a backup or cut our losses. 

Are you saying Matt Kalil was not our starting left tackle last season. On the play you are referring to Kalil moved from the left to right side in an unbalanced line but he played the season as our starting left tackle. Or we you talking about Moton and just said Kalil.

[panthers55]

21 minutes ago, stbugs said:

In some cases yes. I 100% believed in 2016 that Byrd was better for our team than Bersin and Fozzie/Webb in the return game. He was explosive enough to help. Bersin in 42 games has 1 career TD. Fozzy and Webb in 85 kickoff returns have a long of 56 yards. Byrd in 3 starts has 2 receiving TD and in 7 kickoff returns has 1 TD. 

RR is far from perfect. Feel free to bow down at his feet but Amini was garbage last year when he came in at guard and Moton looked much better run blocking. We’ll see but geez let’s not act like fans can’t see something in players. Sometimes it’s the risk of a new player that coaches are scared of that prevents them from the switch.

You see then on Sunday and only see what happened not what was supposed to happen. They see things every day and when they watch film they know what happened and what was supposed to happen. So you saw something but most times you are going to be limited in what conclusions you can adequately draw except for obvious situations. Let's be real here Rivera has forgotten more than you will ever know about football and the notion he doesn't know much about player personnel is really perpetuated by folks who have big opinions but few facts to back them up.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

1 hour ago, Cyberjag said:

So you think you are a better judge of who should start than Rivera?

I don't know why the hell Amini is got the reps he did over Moton, but I'm sure there's a better reason than "RR loves his vets!"  Maybe he knew the plays and did what he was supposed to, while Moton looked good blocking someone when he should have been pulling.  Who knows?  I don't, but I do know that if Moton was not beating out Silatolu, there's a reason and we don't always get to know.

It's all academic once TC starts anyway.  The LG position will go to the player who wins it, and we all doubt it will be Amini.  But for now, he's there on the depth chart.

Actually you can't compare a on the line or worse player like Amini to Moton since he hasn't really had played a lot of games to prove himself but fact is Amini is not that good period and no I don't or have worked in NFL which is totally irrelevant and has 0 to do with this post.

[Cyberjag]

3 hours ago, rbsponsel52 said:

Have fun with this assumption which is 100% wrong by the way. Amini is not shouldn't even be a starter but a back-up or not play at all.

So the assumption that Rivera knows what he's doing is 100% wrong, according to you.

3 minutes ago, rbsponsel52 said:

Actually you can't compare a on the line or worse player like Amini to Moton since he hasn't really had played a lot of games to prove himself but fact is Amini is not that good period and no I don't or have worked in NFL which is totally irrelevant and has 0 to do with this post.

You've never worked in the NFL, while Rivera is at the top of his profession.  And that's totally irrelevant and has 0 to do with the post where you say that assuming a two-time COTY knows what he's doing is wrong.  

Ok, you got me.  I have no idea how to respond to that.

[Seoul_Panther]

3 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Are you saying Matt Kalil was not our starting left tackle last season. On the play you are referring to Kalil moved from the left to right side in an unbalanced line but he played the season as our starting left tackle. Or we you talking about Moton and just said Kalil.

   You’re right. I didn’t make it clear. Initially I made a point about Kalil but then wasn’t clear that I was contrasting his role with Moton’s. If Moton has been given an opportunity at LT I would feel a lot better about drafting OL to cover the G position. I just really don’t want the Moton pick to be depth.

[panthers55]

6 hours ago, stbugs said:

Why does that matter? After watching last year do you honestly feel Amini is better than Moton or Bersin better than Byrd?

Why is it impossible for a defensive coach and former defensive player to not be as good on offense and make dumb or let’s say conservative decisions like keep Shula too long or favor vets because he’s worries about young guys screwing up?

I always find it interesting when people blindly follow an expert and just assume that since they haven’t been at that level that they couldn’t possibly see something wrong. There doesn’t always have to be an explanation when it could just be being wrong or making a mistake. 

First of all to think a defensive coach doesn't know offense is really naive. If your job is to try and stop an offense don't you think you have to know everything about the offense you are going against in order to be able to stop them. What do you think a defensive coach does every week. Spends hours watching the opponents defense or their offense. You think you might have to understand their concepts, formations and tendencies in order to teach your guys what to recognize and prepare for?

And I  love when an armchair fan thinks by watching a football game or even looking at tape that somehow he knows more than a coach who makes his living coaching in the NFL and is recognized by his peers as a great coach. Sure he can be wrong but I will put my money on the guy making his living as a coach in the NFL over someone who never played or coached at that level.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, Seoul_Panther said:

   You’re right. I didn’t make it clear. Initially I made a point about Kalil but then wasn’t clear that I was contrasting his role with Moton’s. If Moton has been given an opportunity at LT I would feel a lot better about drafting OL to cover the G position. I just really don’t want the Moton pick to be depth.

One of the criticisms of Gettleman"s first round picks is that they were at positions of strength not weakness almost ensuring they wouldn't be starters right away. Thompson, Butler and Moton werent  going to replace our starters but were mostly chosen as insurance in the event we needed them. Not a bad strategy but most times linebackers, DTs and OTs are not plug and play.

I think Moton will be fine and may very well win the job at left guard. On the other hand, he may be saved to spell M Kalil while getting valuable reps at OT.  We need to draft a combo lineman that can play guard and center since we know the other Kalil is definitely gone after this year. So we need to draft one or two O linemen or get damn lucky again with a UDFA like we did with Norwell.

[panthers55]

Sarcasm aside you are right. Amini was better than what you think you saw and Bryd wasn't around long enough to  be able to evaluate much. He seems too small for the NFL and always hurt. A good reason to count on Bersin and Fozzy more than him. I love Byrd when he is healthy if he can stay healthy. When has he ever stayed healthy.

[Seoul_Panther]

8 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Not a bad strategy but most times linebackers, DTs and OTs are not plug and play.

  Agreed. Hey I have no problem with Moton’s usage last year. Red-shirting makes sense especially behind a guy who you’ve given a whopping contract to. My point was if the team has no plan to give him more reps going forward. Then you are wasting his rookie contract and you don’t know what he can do.

 We need to draft a combo lineman that can play guard and center since we know the other Kalil is definitely gone after this year. 

  Therein lies the rub. The fact that we are still talking about drafting for two positions -C, G, despite spending a high pick last year is a problem. If we assume that the rookie will be red shirted then he won’t play very much either and it’s more wasted draft capital at least in the short term.

 In the end, If Moton plays at guard which many people are unhappy with then we still won’t know if he can replace MKalil and likely will draft a new T replacement for MKalil next year. If he takes over MKalil’s job we create dead cap and make a nonsense of front loading his contract. If as many people advocate he does neither then we aren’t getting adequate usage out of a high pick. It’s fair to ask the question what did the Panthers see as the best case outcome here. Because it looks a lot like a lack of coherent planning especially if Moton can’t find his way onto the field.