TE2 is getting worrisome

[MtnProwler]

48 minutes ago, Riverboat Ron said:

This lack of concern is exactly why the Rivera-Hurney duo doesn't work. We ignore safety pretty much since Minter and settle for sub par players to fill bigger roles. 

We now have to find an immediate starter at FS, at least a #2 CB, future replacement for 75 year old Mike Adams, future replacement for 38 year old Peppers, will Shaq replace Davis?, LT to replace speed bump, a LG to replace Norwell, future C to replace oft injured Kalil, a power RB, TE #2 and future after Olsen, backup QB and maybe a WR. 

I'm sure "THE" Marty Hurney is up for the task...

I understand, these are valid concerns. Other teams face similar holes and questions. Others, however, face often far worse situations. We could be a non-playoff team looking for a quarterback with a defense in the bottom half. But we're not. We can get half of these taken care of with this year's FA and draft. The other questions can easily be handled next year with cap savings from retiring Kalil, Peppers, (Olsen?), and the draft. With the cap and quarterback pay where it is, all of the good teams still have to have a rookie and/or a FA play at a pro bowl level in order to have a run in the playoffs.

 

I do see this year's FA drying up. But we are right where we need to be with our cap situation, having FAs at 1-3million cap hit since most of the expensive ones are now gone. I expect to see some signings this week.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Tbe said:

The panthers have too many needs to be addressed this year. It’s going to take 2-3 years to fix everything. A starting Safety, CB, and RB this year would be amazing but we’ll most likely get one or two decent starters in the draft. That leaves a few critical positions with huge holes. Not much they can do.

That was my thought prior to free agency and it looks like it has gotten worse and not better. We have just made so many bad moves over the past couple of years and have not been able to draft impact players either. Lots of roster holes are about to pop up. I was hopeful that we could do some roster retooling and be able to stay competitive but it might be wholesale rebuilding in the near future. Think about how many critical players are set to retire or we will be replacing. Peppers, Thomas Davis, Ryan Kalil, Greg Olsen, Mike Adams, Matt Kalil, etc. And we have Daryl Williams, Shaq Thompson and Devin Funchess coming up on free agency next season. 

That honestly is not a very rosy outlook, IMO. Our next two drafts are going to be pretty critical moving forward. If we can't get more out of guys like Vernon Butler, James Bradberry, Taylor Moton, Curtis Samuels and Daeshon Hall, we are going to be in sad shape. It's too hard and expensive to prop up the franchise through free agency. These picks need to get better. 

[PanthersBigD]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Taking Vernon Butler over Hunter Henry was a terrible decision. 

In hindsight, absolutely. However, wasn't he drafted before they signed KK to his contract? I feel like he was drafting KK's replacement as he was probably thinking he had a 50/50 shot to get a deal done. This was also pre-Greg injury and he'd been friggin Cal Ripken in football pads up until last season.  

Whatever the reason, I definitely wanted HH more, and was bummed that he didn't draft him. 

[MtnProwler]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That was my thought prior to free agency and it looks like it has gotten worse and not better. We have just made so many bad moves over the past couple of years and have not been able to draft impact players either. Lots of roster holes are about to pop up. I was hopeful that we could do some roster retooling and be able to stay competitive but it might be wholesale rebuilding in the near future. Think about how many critical players are set to retire or we will be replacing. Peppers, Thomas Davis, Ryan Kalil, Greg Olsen, Mike Adams, Matt Kalil, etc. And we have Daryl Williams, Shaq Thompson and Devin Funchess coming up on free agency next season. 

That honestly is not a very rosy outlook, IMO. Our next two drafts are going to be pretty critical moving forward. If we can't get more out of guys like Vernon Butler, James Bradberry, Taylor Moton, Curtis Samuels and Daeshon Hall, we are going to be in sad shape. It's too hard and expensive to prop up the franchise through free agency. These picks need to get better. 

All of those retiring offers great cap savings for some great opportunities, including re-signing some of our own players. Five of the six retiring, that you mentioned, nets $31 million in cap space. We're approaching top 15 available cap space with that number, so not all is lost and grim. It would be nice if these draftees start coming into their own and we can use those funds for some high profile complements. But only time will tell, we've got to finish off some FA signees this year.

[AU-panther]

I agree that we missed out on some guys that would have filled some needs but I try not to get into the habit of playing the "should have" game.  Its easy in hindsight.  The fact is all GMs miss more than they hit. 

What I didn't like is the amount of trading up we did.  Everyone likes to justify it by saying you are increasing the odds with the players you do pick but history tells us there are no sure things.  I understand that later round picks have a really low chance of making it but if you trade enough of them you are costing yourself a good chance of atleast getting one player.  Maybe that player would be a safety or TE that we could use now.

They don't even have to be quality starters.  A player like Mayo is a good pick.  Seems to be a quality back up that you have on a really cheap contract for 4 years.  Same with CAP, even though he isn't active most weeks, he fills a roster spot for a cheap controlled cost.  Some might say if he was better he would be active, but in that case some other player would be inactive.  I would much rather fill back up roster spots with younger cheap guys then old guys on the minimum.  The younger guys have the potential to improve and you have a controlled cost for 4 years.

Most people have unrealistic expections of the number of starters to expect from a draft but we really could use a strong draft this year.

If we could trade down in the first about 8 spots we could probably pick up a later 3rd.  That would give us 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

[mc52beast]

Would like to know how much Hurney offered Ebron. Must not have even been close to the Colt’s offer, unless they told him he would be featured.

[CPcavedweller]

4 hours ago, Hotsauce said:

CB1

TE

SS

QB2

Owner

...yeah need in key positions are starting to stack up

Bradberry was in the top 25% of corners last season. We have two top 10 linebackers and had a top five defensive line. You can't spend money everywhere; look at the Seahawks offensive line since they had to sign their defensive talent as an example. 

[CPcavedweller]

1 minute ago, mc52beast said:

Would like to know how much Hurney offered Ebron. Must not have even been close to the Colt’s offer, unless they told him he would be featured.

Jack Doyle versus Greg Olsen is all you need to look at. 

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, MtnProwler said:

All of those retiring offers great cap savings for some great opportunities, including re-signing some of our own players. Five of the six retiring, that you mentioned, nets $31 million in cap space. We're approaching top 15 available cap space with that number, so not all is lost and grim. It would be nice if these draftees start coming into their own and we can use those funds for some high profile complements. But only time will tell, we've got to finish off some FA signees this year.

Yeah but all the cap space in the world allows you to resign core players, which at that point would be pretty lacking or already locked up in long term deals. It affords you the ability to be splashy in free agency but that is rarely a recipe for success for a franchise, especially long term. The fact is, we need to build a younger core to this team and right now that isn't looking as solid as it once did. 

But, if Moton steps in at LG, RT, LT or anywhere on the line and can prove to be an above average player, that helps. If Daryl Williams has another stellar year and we resign him, that helps. If Devin Funchess stays healthy, performs like a legit top 2 WR, and we resign him, that helps. If Daeshon Hall makes an impact as a rotational player this year, that helps. If Curtis Samuels shows he is able to be a more reliable deep threat, that helps. 

So, it isn't all necessarily doom and gloom but we are in a tenuous position these next two draft/FA periods and seasons, as well. A little to the right, and we motor on with a younger core and a direction to our future. A little to the left, and we are potentially looking the potential of multiple bad years as we rebuild most of the roster. That is why I emphasize the criticality of this period. I don't feel like I am being hyperbolic about it in the slightest. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

yay

[CarolinaBip]

Call Shocky...

[CarolinaBip]

Errr Shockey... been awhile.. lol

 

[MtnProwler]

11 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but all the cap space in the world allows you to resign core players, which at that point would be pretty lacking or already locked up in long term deals. It affords you the ability to be splashy in free agency but that is rarely a recipe for success for a franchise, especially long term. The fact is, we need to build a younger core to this team and right now that isn't looking as solid as it once did. 

But, if Moton steps in at LG, RT, LT or anywhere on the line and can prove to be an above average player, that helps. If Daryl Williams has another stellar year and we resign him, that helps. If Devin Funchess stays healthy, performs like a legit top 2 WR, and we resign him, that helps. If Daeshon Hall makes an impact as a rotational player this year, that helps. If Curtis Samuels shows he is able to be a more reliable deep threat, that helps. 

So, it isn't all necessarily doom and gloom but we are in a tenuous position these next two draft/FA periods and seasons, as well. A little to the right, and we motor on with a younger core and a direction to our future. A little to the left, and we are potentially looking the potential of multiple bad years as we rebuild most of the roster. That is why I emphasize the criticality of this period. I don't feel like I am being hyperbolic about it in the slightest. 

Must be your personality to be a loyal skeptic, there's nothing wrong with that. Just know nothing typically goes as bad as it seems and it never goes as good as planned. Likely, a few that you mentioned will perform while some won't. While a few we pick up in FA will perform and some won't. The same with the draft. A healthy combo of performing vets and newcomers is ideal. I'm not disagreeing, we are on the older side and that needs to be acknowledged.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, MtnProwler said:

Must be your personality to be a loyal skeptic, there's nothing wrong with that. Just know nothing typically goes as bad as it seems and it never goes as good as planned. Likely, a few that you mentioned will perform while some won't. While a few we pick up in FA will perform and some won't. The same with the draft. A healthy combo of performing vets and newcomers is ideal. I'm not disagreeing, we are on the older side and that needs to be acknowledged.

I am skeptical of our recent drafts and have a significant amount of trepidation regarding Hurney moving forward, so that does leave me with a healthy dose of uneasiness. Plus, I look at the way the Saints have overhauled their roster with some home run drafts and that makes me nervous about our place in the NFC South. The funny thing is that if the Breeland deal had gone down as planned, I would have felt a lot better about this year. I don't like the idea of having to scramble after the Worley trade, especially when the secondary was our biggest team weakness(IMO).

The draft is a crapshoot but you need to get starters or rotational guys out of the majority of the top 3 round picks in the draft. That is something we are struggling with some of the DG years and it was a factor that helped usher Hurney out the door the first time. Same with the dumpster diving that we have done in free agency. You need more hits than misses and that is another thing we struggled with under DG. 

But, it only takes a couple of great drafts to change that. Let's hope Hurney and the scouting dept. channel some of the magic from his good years and not his bad years.