Panthers should consider trading Vernon Butler

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Less than 40% of third round picks last 4 years or more.  Butler does appear to have the talent to last at longer than average.  I would 't trade him for anything less than a second.  And we won't get a second for him.

I get that. I'm just looking at it from the perspective that he only has two relatively cheap seasons remaining with two guys who are clearly going to be ahead of him on the depth chart. Unless something changes, we'll never tender him that 5th year option. Meanwhile, we have a secondary that's utter trash. If we have an opportunity to move Butler for a DB or significant draft capital (3rd or better), I say do it. All the DTs in the world aren't going to help us if our secondary is as bad as it was in the latter part of last year. 

[pantherclaw]

Never, ever......EVER, turn a strength into a weakness.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Never, ever......EVER, turn a strength into a weakness.

It still wouldn't be a weakness. Kyle Love is a solid rotational DT. Add another one in the draft.

I'd argue to never EVER fail to address a glaring weakness.

[juliosantos]

id take a 3rd

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It wouldn't be a weakness until Short gets nicked up and we have little pass rush at the DT position. Love doesn't get the push that Butler does on passing downs. I think Poe and Love are better than typical NTs, but they aren't pass rushing DTs.

We already have 2 3rds. The chance that another 3rd has any impact on this year's secondary is remote.

I still don't think people realize how much Butler will actually play. If it weren't for that illegal knee shot, Butler and Love would have both played 40% of the snaps. They weren't just giving breathers, they were out there just under half the snaps. We need to address the secondary now that Breeland is gone, but we'd absolutely be turning DT into 1 injury away from a weakness. That's not worth a 3rd round pick.

With the 53 man roster and salary cap most teams are one injury away from DT being a weakness. Right now, we're one injury away from running game day contests for a fan to play DB for the day.

[toldozer]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

With the 53 man roster and salary cap most teams are one injury away from DT being a weakness. Right now, we're one injury away from running game day contests for a fan to play DB for the day.

And how does trading butler help that this year?  Oh no we only have 2 cheap years of him left. Y'all make no sense.  Getting a starting corner or safety sure... a draft pick,  beyond dumb. 

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, toldozer said:

And how does trading butler help that this year?  Oh no we only have 2 cheap years of him left. Y'all make no sense.  Getting a starting corner or safety sure... a draft pick,  beyond dumb. 

If we trade him for a good pick we can spend that to address our weaknesses. If we trade him for a DB that obviously addresses one of our weaknesses. 

I don't understand posters like you who can't simply state their opinion without automatically considering any differing opinion to be dumb and make no sense.

I really don't see how it's such a stretch to imagine that trading a former 1st round pick who will be in a rotational role again to bolster positions of obvious weakness couldn't potentially result in a stronger overall team.

[Cpt slay a ho]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I definitely wouldn't give them any draft picks in addition to Butler.

I think we should actively be shopping Butler for a CB or FS right now. It's nice to be stacked with DTs, but not at the expense of having a secondary nearly devoid of NFL caliber talent.

Yeah I agree for the most part, curious any ideal on who you’d target in a trade ?

[toldozer]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If we trade him for a good pick we can spend that to address our weaknesses. If we trade him for a DB that obviously addresses one of our weaknesses. 

I don't understand posters like you who can't simply state their opinion without automatically considering any differing opinion to be dumb and make no sense.

I really don't see how it's such a stretch to imagine that trading a former 1st round pick who will be in a rotational role again to bolster positions of obvious weakness couldn't potentially result in a stronger overall team.

Because you want to address the secondary this year.  Trading him for a pick doesn't really help this year.  Sure we could get lucky and get a stud cb in the 4th round but it's not likely.  Also just because I think an idea is dumb doesn't mean I think the people thinking them are dumb. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, toldozer said:

Because you want to address the secondary this year.  Trading him for a pick doesn't really help this year.  Sure we could get lucky and get a stud cb in the 4th round but it's not likely.  Also just because I think an idea is dumb doesn't mean I think the people thinking them are dumb. 

I've already said I wouldn't trade Butler for a 4th.

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Yeah I agree for the most part, curious any ideal on who you’d target in a trade ?

I honestly have no idea who might be available. Look for a team light at DT and deep at CB. Can't be too many that fit the bill.

Actually, the Cowboys come to mind. They're light at DT and they can't seem to figure out what to do with former 2nd round pick Byron Jones. They've bounced him between CB and S. We have needs at both spots.

Yeah... Vernon Butler for Byron Jones. I'd do that. Seems like it would make sense for both teams.

[toldozer]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I've already said I wouldn't trade Butler for a 4th.

 Well we already have 2  thirds so anyone we want we could already get there. A 2nd isn't happening for him.  If we can get a proven starter in the secondary then I'm all for it as well.  Just feels like people want to throw him away for anything we can get.  He's still a decent player and on his rookie deal. 

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, toldozer said:

 Well we already have 2  thirds so anyone we want we could already get there. A 2nd isn't happening for him.  If we can get a proven starter in the secondary then I'm all for it as well.  Just feels like people want to throw him away for anything we can get.  He's still a decent player and on his rookie deal. 

Having three 3rds would give us additional flexibility. We could make three 3rd round picks or it could give us additional trade value for a potential move up. Say if a Derwin James or Calvin Ridley slipped out of the top 10. #24 plus two 3rds could probably get us up into the 12-14 range. So would #24 plus our 2nd rounder if a team insisted on that. Maybe we'd be willing to part with our 2nd if we had three 3rds in our back pocket. We could potentially package two 3rds if we felt the need to jump back into the 2nd.

It's not about just giving Butler away for anything we can get, it's about trying to put the best, most well balanced roster we can on the field. It's also about the team feeling the need to go out and add a high value free agent DT. I'm not sure the Panthers' organization is as high on Butler as some of our fans.

[JARROD]

Why aren’t we talking about trading Butler for a corner?