New #DeepThreat Torrey Smith With Only 6 Catches Past 15 Yards In 2017

[E CaT PanTHer 2]

9 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Thanks for clarifying what our highest paid WR actually is.

he's the highest paid b/c CmC, Funch, and Samuel are still on their rookie deals so what's your point? 

[TheRed]

21 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

I mean, honestly, do you really think Torrey Smith is finally the help Cam needed? Especially hearing you in the past, I’m relatively surprised you’re on board with a move like this.

You're omitting the fact that it's March and we haven't even had the draft yet.

I'm on board as long as we also address the position in the draft.

We also need pass rush and secondary help man. You are sidestepping other factors here.

[TheSpecialJuan]

38 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

First of all, I just want to get this out of the way and say this isn’t like something that’ll kill us. Yes, it’s only 5 million and it’s very easy to cut him anyways and get that 5 million back and just use Smith as an insurance policy (which we should). 

However, this is by no means addressing the WR position. We need someone better, and I hope we get that guy. Torrey Smith is not the answer no matter how you look at it, and is not the veteran or guy we need.

And of course, our highest paid WR is one of the worst in the NFL according to NFL1000, landing himself in the bottom 10 of the list.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752678-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-outside-wide-receivers-of-2017-season

99. Torrey Smith, Philadelphia Eagles

Route Running: 11/30
Hands: 9/25
YAC: 12/20
Blocking: 7/15
Position Value: 8/10
Overall Grade: 47/100

While Alshon Jeffery's signing was a major hit in Philadelphia, Smith's was a flop. He played a ton but accumulated 430 yards and two touchdowns. The 28-year-old, who was known for his ability to make downfield plays throughout his career, caught six passes that went further than 15 yards this season. Smith struggled with drops, and his blocking in the run game was pitiful at times. He might be one-and-done with the Eagles.

______

Don’t try and kid that we got our WR to help Cam. We can do better than this.

love it

[davos]

There's some memory loss around these parts back to when we first brought Ginn to Carolina.  

He was actually less spectacular than Smith and then disappeared with the 49ers.  Actually quite a similar trajectory and people were pissed he was our WR signing.  Folks were more excited when we signed that bum DJ Hackett. 

[ncfan]

Torrey Smith was a guy who made it as a chuck it deep guy in Baltimore. Small but fast which was perfect for a Slot guy.

San Fran gave him good contract 5 year 40 mil 22 guaranteed.

He got there and flopped, pretty much showing what several people said all along he was a #3 option tops

 

We have Byrd who is a deep speed slot guy, and looked decent (as good if not possibly better than Smith in Philly) prior to injury.

We also drafted Samuel, and while he hasnt shown anything yet and been injured.  He was brought in as a chuck it deep guy.

I did not like Worley so getting rid of him doesnt bother me.

What bothers me is we just spent 25% of our remaining cap space on a guy that esentially the same as Byrd and will fill the same role of a Bryd and Samuel who is already on the roster.

Yes Watkins is going to cost a whole lot more probably 10 mil vs the 5 mil Smith is getting.  But he is going to fill a hole as a outside guy who has size along with the speed.

Now we have 1 More hole than prior to the trade (losing a starting CB) and 5 mil less to spend filling them 

 

Smith wouldnt bother me if we wernt Cap strapped and have 1-2 guys already on the roster who can fill the same Role Smith is coming to fill

[SetfreexX]

38 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

Make a large bid on Watkins. Get rid of Torrey and fire at Watkins in the 10-12 million range tbh.

Heck, I’m even okay with going low and grabbing Mike Wallace, Donte Moncrief, or Albert Wilson at this rate.

Torrey Smith is like another Russell Shepard. He’s not going to be doing much except taking away snaps from the younger guys while he himself doesn’t deserve them.

But you were amping up Shep all last off-season.....

[TheRed]

Even before this move and Mike Evans absurd contract, I said it would need to be a near perfect scenario all around for us to acquire one of the top sought after WR's this year. That's just the reality of the cap situation we are in. But after that Evans contract, there's pretty much no chance.

[Saca312]

25 minutes ago, mjligon said:

I am having a hard time understanding why you don't think he can produce in a vertical attacking offense, just like Ted Ginn was able to?

I'll show you a few examples since I have the time. Before you say "oh that's only one GIF" clearly I'm not going to display every single target he had in the 2017 season on one post, so please go ahead on gamepass and look up his targets yourself if you don't believe me.

Torrey Smith is not Ted Ginn. He's not as refined in his route-running or ability to beat press like Ginn showed himself able to. A three big problems that comes up with Torrey is his drops, winning during contested catches, and his release at the line of scrimmage.

Coming in, Ginn had problems with 2 out of the 3 above and was only worth 1.1 million total.

In the below example, Smith is facing press coverage against the Chiefs. Ideally, you want a solid release to be able to get a step on the corner and "stack" him to get open. Smith fails with proper footwork to do so, and gets trapped. Throws off timing with Wentz and also fails to adjust to the catch as well.

Now, adding on, he does not do well in contested catch scenarios. All Panthers WRs had that issue, so this is not encouraging. Wentz is in scramble mode so expecting an in-stride pass in this situation is not logical. Wentz throws the ball in a situation where he just has to beat Sorenson at the catch point. Turns head, puts hands up, and drops what he should've caught.

Another one where he's not good at the catch point. Perfectly placed ball, but Smith was not aggressive enough and lets the DB handle him.

Finally, hello Ted Ginn hands

Hello Russell Shepard hands

These are the negatives I see from him.

[Saca312]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Even before this move and Mike Evans absurd contract, I said it would need to be a near perfect scenario all around for us to acquire one of the top sought after WR's this year. That's just the reality of the cap situation we are in. But after that Evans contract, there's pretty much no chance.

I mean that's fair, but then again I do think we're overpaying Torrey Smith with 5M and certainly think we could do lower after last season's results from him.

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, Saca312 said:

I mean that's fair, but then again I do think we're overpaying Torrey Smith with 5M and certainly think we could do lower after last season's results from him.

I'm not gonna argue semantics about his cost. Either way you look at it, that terrible Shepard signing last offseason boxed us into this situation. It sucks, but that's the truth.

[Saca312]

Just now, TheRed said:

I'm not gonna argue semantics about his cost. Either way you look at it, that terrible Shepard signing last offseason boxed us into this situation. It sucks, but that's the truth.

I won't deny that at all. I agree.

That's why I'm changing my mindset with this offseason. I want proven results, not "what could be" or "he was good x amount of years ago"

[TheRed]

1 minute ago, Saca312 said:

I won't deny that at all. I agree.

That's why I'm changing my mindset with this offseason. I want proven results, not "what could be" or "he was good x amount of years ago"

Well by your current but ever changing definition of "proven", none of the top veteran WR options instill total confidence. Yet the cost gap between them is substantial. That's the issue.

[CarolinaNCSU]

Also to note, Hurney could easily approach Torrey at any point about lowering his contract, and actually guaranteeing part of it. Don't know how specifics on things like this work (somebody please explain if you do) but on Sportrac... 

• 2018 & 2019 seasons are club options, must be exercised by 3/14/2018

I take that to mean we have until this Wednesday to pick up his next two years. Don't know if you can only pick up 2018 or not...but might be some contract negotiations going on that we don't know of to even lower his cap hit, and guarantee 2019. 

 

[iamhubby1]

    If you like a guy who is coming off a couple sub par seasons. It's "Look at his situation. He's proven it in the past."

 

    If you don't like a guy coming off a couple sub par seasons. It's "He's trash."  

 

    I look at it this way. With Samuel, Byrd, McC, and now Smith. That is a whole lot of speed on the field. If Norv can figure this out? It very well could be a whole lot of fun to watch.